Hawker Beechcraft, Machinists To Meet
Hawker Beechcraft, Machinists To Meet Save Email Print
Reporter: Chris Frank
Email Address: chris.frank@kake.com
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Negotiators for Hawker Beechcraft and the Machinists Union will meet to discuss contract negotiations.

A statement from the company said "At the request of the Federal Mediation and Conciliation Services, Hawker Beechcraft and the Machinists Union have agreed to meet to explore options concerning the strike and negotiations".

"The IAM is ready and willing to meet with the Federal Mediator at any time", said union Aerospace Coordinator Ron Eldridge.

Machinists in Wichita and Salina have been on strike since August 4th. 89% of machinists voted to strike.

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Posted by: What Happened on Aug 27, 2008 at 10:24 PM
Before tomorrows vote you had all better do your homework. Go to www.kake.com/home/headlines/27350134.html relate link,download the revised proposal,download the proposal rejected/ HBC 2008 negotiation website(download with all the articles)& get the 2005 contract book. Start reading & comparing article by article. Your not being told the whole truth.Flyer says insurance improvements on vote down proposal carry over with no increase for premium. The Kake proposal for tomorrows vote says shows group medical remains the same as the current contract(which is the 2005 contract. Only dental&short term disability carryover. Read article 22.09.01.-Effective January 1, 2006- 2009,other selected provisions of the Raytheon Aircraft Company Hawkerbeechcraft Corporation Group Life,Medical,Disability Benefit Plans,Dental &Vision Plans will be revised as agreed between parties as noted in the 2009 group benefits- ETO accum is same as 2005 contract. No 5days ETO until you have 6-7yrs service.BE AWARE
Posted by: PO'dlover on Aug 27, 2008 at 11:16 AM
PO'd - I think I love you.
Posted by: blindedbythe light on Aug 27, 2008 at 10:31 AM
who's got udall ocean front, i'll give u 12.00 cash AmERICAN
Posted by: krazy@boutmyvacation Location: ElDorado on Aug 27, 2008 at 09:22 AM
Just talked to the HQ Paul Garett, all of you union members that need food, just go to 3830 S. Meridian and you can 'SURVIVE" please call the strike HQ, n talk to Paul, he will help you, do IT NOW, and they will help you, we will help you make it "1 day longer" for what we have been fighting for.
Posted by: giveshystermormoney Location: wellington on Aug 27, 2008 at 08:24 AM
GMONEY, ur a tease
Posted by: concerned on Aug 27, 2008 at 07:49 AM
"Concerned4Granny", mnnn, do you think that Grandpa would let you lie with their problem's n walk in "their shoe's"
Posted by: wifewithafamily on Aug 27, 2008 at 07:46 AM
PO"d, appparently it does not stand for "PayedOff"
Posted by: dumass Location: leon on Aug 27, 2008 at 06:54 AM
grandpa's wife, agree n disagree, all the union brother's n sister's are making a statement, as the company is wrong, and a UA, for Rollin, he's a veteran of american war's, so lighten uyp. Maybe u need an IQ test, no comment1
Posted by: krazyaboutmyvacation Location: ElDorado on Aug 27, 2008 at 06:06 AM
PO"d, unlike you I know where I live, and YES" we did not get everything that we wanted, still waiting for the vote, you are either a 'paid' emailer r just a person thaqt doies not beleive in the union, tis your god given right, in AMERICA, so i gather that you are at work and just having a fine '15seconds" on this blog, but remember you must live with your decision, and say anything that you want, but remember, when you get your raise, to just think!
Posted by: krazyaboutmyvacation Location: ElDorado by the lake n pOOL on Aug 27, 2008 at 05:08 AM
PO"d pinkerton has no clue, whenb/where a fire is is due to ignorance_wheresthatbuildingalarm,,,,,,,,,,,,,n STRIKE as the union is giving frEEfOOd to anyone, evewn if you crossed the line, so ya think that 89/90% of the unioun is wrong, mnn(no comment),GMONEY, us funny n keep commenting VP"smake5Xu, ROLLLIN,,,,,,,ur RIGHT,FOOD is free, just call the hall r STRIKEHQ 6811905, DJ, i spend more on my sons college than i lost : }chyeck our the "survival guide" n dr's r nice, 'HOW CONCIDENTAL", please drink a bEEr , n take a break, as you will make the same money n benefits as us, so chill!
Posted by: HBC STRIKER Location: Wichita on Aug 27, 2008 at 03:28 AM
Grandpa's Wife: Thank you for standing and believing in something... I think most of the people who crawled across the picket line did so for brownie points with management. Most of the people I saw cross were NOT the hard workers of the company. Most of the company gossip spreaders went back the first day. They needed something to talk about. HA HA!! Good job strikers!
Posted by: Concerned4Granny on Aug 26, 2008 at 09:46 PM
Looks like Grandpa's wife forgot to take her meds again. Probably because she doesn't have any insurance to cover it. Go to sleep crazy lady.
Posted by: PO'd on Aug 26, 2008 at 05:44 PM
I talked to some of the security guards from out east. They said they have never seen a strike like this. Nobody knows what they were striking for and the amount of people that went to work like business as usual. Heck, the strikers weren't out there all the time 24/7. Shoot can't even strike correctly.
Posted by: Grandpa' Wife Location: Wichita on Aug 26, 2008 at 04:27 PM
I agree, Rollin. The strikers gained ground. Maybe not as much as they would have liked but they weren't pushovers like the company thought they would be. This will help everyone in future contracts. And to all those that said management likes being on the line, yeah right! What you been smokin?! You better hope they don't UA you. As for HBC being glad the strikers were out so they could do maintenance on the buildings? Well, I am sure HBC would rather be using their employees to build planes than painting walls and cleaning bathroom "foyers". Yep, I can see management being happy wielding a paint brush instead of a pencil. I also have ocean-front property in Udall to sell you!! Way to go strikers! Hang in there!
Posted by: GMONEY on Aug 26, 2008 at 02:44 PM
I wish you would stay on the other side of the fence so we can get some work done. We need to cut the fat (UNION) from this company.
Posted by: union worker Location: ict on Aug 26, 2008 at 10:53 AM
in due time..air craft worker will either have to accept the fact we have topped out in pay ..or wichita will look like flint michigan...people that were making 30 per hr building cars now make 6 per hour makinmg 3m lint removers...is there ever gonna be a time when we are satisfied?? watch the Michael moore dvd "roger and me"
Posted by: Rollin Location: Rivr on Aug 26, 2008 at 10:06 AM
DJ, You need to look at the big picture; Look down the road to retirement, take a look at the insurance, paid time off. If you let them take it away it will make it easier to take more away next contract! By the way, next contract time they might have a mindset that we just might strike!! This not only is good for Hawker union people, but others in the community will benefit by non union employers having to use competitive wages.
Posted by: Rollin Location: Rivr on Aug 25, 2008 at 09:43 PM
To the person who posted no union checks and is laughing; You are very wrong. We were issued checks today and we will be issued checks from the union once again even if the contract is accepted this Thursday. Maybe you should check your facts before you hoop and hollar! If the contract is ratified, we will return to work next Tuesday, and if you return next week, you will be paid for the Labor Day Holiday. Also, you will receive your last strike check next week, for a total of two checks.
Posted by: PO'd on Aug 25, 2008 at 08:11 PM
You didn't win anything, you just lost a months worth of pay for nothing.
Posted by: DJ Location: ict on Aug 25, 2008 at 05:19 PM
After losing 1/12th of their income for the year, I wonder how much that 4% raise means now. It would suit the workers well to get back to work before their annual income drops even further for 2008.
Posted by: union worker Location: ict on Aug 25, 2008 at 05:14 PM
well..what the paper said and what the lady behind the table at the union hall said ..this morning...is 2 different things....so..my bad..i was mis informed by the lady handing out the checks...lol one day longer...and i didnt get a paper handed out to me today...
Posted by: union worker Location: ict on Aug 25, 2008 at 04:06 PM
To union worker posted Aug 25 @ 12:49 you need to read the paper again that they handed out today!!!It said that you would receive 2 checks!!!! 1 check today and 1 next week!!!!!!!!LOL
Posted by: union worker Location: ict on Aug 25, 2008 at 02:21 PM
Shane ..you should have crossed if i had been in your situation i would have,....my ex wife had medical problems all the time ..we didnt have ins for a month and wow..it took me 6 years to pay off the debt...
Posted by: PO'd on Aug 25, 2008 at 12:52 PM
Posted by: hardworker Location: wichita on Aug 25, 2008 at 09:23 AM PO'd: can you please explain then why a manger was observed pulliong a car in the plant on a tow rope last week! and why there is one car at plt 4 that never leaves but gets moved around every day? That is funny if you believe that.
Posted by: union worker Location: ict on Aug 25, 2008 at 12:49 PM
yes they had out the checks and then informed us if we vote in the new contract on the day we vote..strike pay ends..so..no checks next week....lol dee dee dee 3600 bucks or more in union dues..over 9 years..150 check...one box of food...6 shirts lol
Posted by: How Coincidental on Aug 25, 2008 at 11:16 AM
So is the IAM handing out the $150 paychecks today? If so, looks for sure like they don't want to do it for next week as well.
Posted by: Rusty Location: Standing strong so scabs can try to take my job! on Aug 25, 2008 at 09:43 AM
To old Fashioned american worker I think the proper term you need to describe yourself is spineless cowardly SCAB not old fashioned american worker because were the ones on the other side of the fence!!!!!
Posted by: Wichita on Aug 25, 2008 at 09:42 AM
Firefighters can picket city hall on their off days, but they could never go on strike. They do their job for the love of it, and they get paid lousy wages. I love firemen!
Posted by: Union Worker on Aug 25, 2008 at 09:42 AM
Thank you KAKE for your excellent coverage on the HBC strike. You really outdid the other stations. You have won over several devoted viewers.
Posted by: hardworker Location: wichita on Aug 25, 2008 at 09:23 AM
PO'd: can you please explain then why a manger was observed pulliong a car in the plant on a tow rope last week! and why there is one car at plt 4 that never leaves but gets moved around every day?
Posted by: IAM Worker on Aug 25, 2008 at 08:59 AM
Guess what I just heard. The Union and the company have reached an agreement! The Union is going to recommend it, we're going to vote on it, and back to work on Friday. Great job brothers and sisters!
Posted by: Union member wife Location: wichita on Aug 25, 2008 at 08:11 AM
Shane, just an fyi. My husband talked to one of his co-workers a few days ago. He crossed the line because he needed the insurance, but was told that if he had not crossed before the third day after the strike started they would not give him his insurance back until a new contract came out. I am not sure if this is a company wide thing or not. But if you have some people on the inside you might want to call them before you cross. Also, have you tried calling 211. Its an information hotline thru united way. They have a list of organizations that may be able to help you with not only medical but paying your bills as well. Hope this helps:) STAND STRONG STRIKERS!! YOUR DOING AWESOME!!!
Posted by: PO'd on Aug 25, 2008 at 06:21 AM
The managers were not told to drive different cars, bout the only thing that Corp told us is to respect your rights as stiking Union and becarefull and look for pedestrians. Other than that it has pretty much been business as usual.
Posted by: Parent University on Aug 25, 2008 at 06:09 AM
Striker -- That would be the key difference -- neighborhood versus busy city street. Seeing those kids out on the picket line just makes me think that those parents lack good judgment. I suspect that lots of other people driving by have the same reaction. So, whatever point you folks are trying to make by dragging the kids along, it might not be working in the court of public opinion.
Posted by: Blood and sweat on Aug 25, 2008 at 04:55 AM
Shane go to strike hq doing the day . They will help you . There are Doctors out thier that will wave thier fee till after the strike . thier is a list at HQ.
Posted by: Shane Location: Wichita on Aug 25, 2008 at 12:17 AM
Can someone please help me with this question? I heard the union will help with Drs. office visits, prescription needs, or pay a month of cobra ins. for you, depending on which ever way is cheaper for them. It also depends on how nessasary your medicine needs are. My wife has to have her diabites medicine and supplies. She also takes one medicine that if you stop taking it cold turkey it can cause death. I have turned in paper work, but have heard nothing. How long do we have to wait. If nothing happens soon I will be forced to cross, and I do not want to. But I will before I let her go without her medicine. Her Dr. is even being a jerk and will not refill her prescription unless he see's her. She will be changing Drs. as soon as possible.
Posted by: Striker Support Location: Wichita on Aug 25, 2008 at 12:11 AM
Parent University: Pick a neighborhood, any one, and there are kids all over IN THE STREET... at least these are on the curb with adult supervision. The ones out in the street with no parents in sight, those you need to worry about. HBC STRIKERS STAND STRONG!!!!!!!
Posted by: Rollin Location: Wichita on Aug 25, 2008 at 12:09 AM
Po'd, the reason you see more cars in the lot now is because your managers have been told to stop car pooling and drive their own cars! Hey admit it! Those guys are afraid to stand up to corporate, and deep inside they are glad we're here to push for better working conditions!
Posted by: HBC STRIKER Location: Wichita on Aug 25, 2008 at 12:07 AM
Open Eyes: Most people that are on strike are doing so because we don't like the contract. Who cares about upper management in the union or in the company?? You can consider both crooks.. Move on... The little people, or us workers are who I care about. I totally agree with Rose. We have very incompetent management. House cleaning really needs to start there. Union worker: The company and union are on lock down. Not only the UNION keeping things from you. There are signs all over about the food pick ups in the strike headquarters on Greenwich Rd. There is also a number to call if you want it. It makes it nice to call when a rumor starts going around, they can prove or disprove it, and I have found them to be very informative when I have needed to inquire. Pick up checks tomorrow Monday 9am-1pm and 1pm- 6pm. Stay strong, I think tomorrow (Monday) is a BIG DAY!!!!:) I am proud of all the new people I see standing with us though it is not easy.:) Stick in there!!!
Posted by: Union Proud Location: wichita on Aug 25, 2008 at 12:06 AM
To Sharon: If you were walking picket or checking you unions local web page you would have known about the food distribution it is posted clearly at both places. The union is oraganized and helpful. Just READ
Posted by: union Location: mulvane on Aug 25, 2008 at 12:03 AM
OPEN eyes do you even know what you are talking about? do you always believe what you read on the internet. What a life....If you must know why dont you attend a union meeting sometime they are the second saturday of every month at 2:00 pm there you will learn where the dues go we vote on it every month at the meetings. and of course just like any business there are expencies. Unlike other business our leaders are voted into their positions...by the the brother and sisters of the union.
Posted by: Rollin Location: Rivr on Aug 24, 2008 at 11:49 PM
Whats up with the managers phoning hourly stiking workers at home. There have many instances of managers calling striking hourly people. The managers can't do most of what the people in the plant have been doing in the way of building airplanes and they are calling the strikers asking for instruction. These guys are shameless. As for you guys that complain about the union or us being on strike, you most likely haven't poured your sweat into a project or refined a process only to watch them bring people in from another country and copy your exact procedure stand over your shoulder for weeks and take your process to be outsourced. If we dont stand up against this now are you going to take a stand? These guys want to treat us worse than what Raytheon did by far!
Posted by: Old Fashion American Worker on Aug 24, 2008 at 11:13 PM
This is a message to the company negotiators. Please don’t let the efforts of all of us who came to work day after day through this whole mess, be for nothing. Most of us that came in, came in because we don't believe the trash the Union is spoon feeding us. It took alot to make the choice to come into work knowing the abuse we were going to have to take now,& after the strike, from the Union sheep. You say you believed that the contract was a fair offer, then please help us hold our heads up for making the right choice. Our jobs are very important to us, and we don’t want to see them be lost, because of the actions of people who have been misled. Spirit has turned their company around by getting rid of the freeloaders, and troublemakers, & giving incentive to those willing to work hard. Please take the opportunity to do the same for us. There are still Proud American Workers with the work ethics that made this county great. Help us show the Union our efforts saved jobs.
Posted by: Open Eyes on Aug 24, 2008 at 10:41 PM
Why is it that none of you strong union members has even tried to address any of the questions asked about the financial assets & records,or the commitment of your Local & IAM Union Leadership? You just keep on hammering about the company, scrabs, & anything else, so you don't have to deal with the possibility that you have been had by the Union Leadership, also. Did any of you take the time to go research UnionFacts.com? Have you not been reading the statements about your Union Leadership? No one has given any factual data about where dues are going, & justification for the salaries & benefits that your Union Leadership, & the entire IAM organization is receiving year after year. Have you taken the time to look at the job titles (Vice Presidents, Special Reps, bartenders, Cooks, Lifeguards, Pilots, Co-pilots, groundskeeper-page after page) and the salaried your IAM is paying them from your dues? Apparent you don’t want to know the truth. It’s Easier to hate & blame the company
Posted by: 4 yr employee & union Location: Plant 4 on Aug 24, 2008 at 10:39 PM
Last Contract in 05 I disagreed with it & didn't vote for it, I was a newby. This contract was more take aways for the new employees then it was in 05. What is sad is the company fluffs up the raises & puts newer employees in a sweat shop. Even Target & aircraft outsources gives ETO for ALL hours worked per month not just straight 1 yr. Nor do they say when you can grieve for a love one or give a blank cost for health insurance, 15% of what? Is it what HBC says it is or the company supplying the coverage? Let it be known HBC could have save over 10 mil with the proposed option. Why am I standing with my brothers and sisters? There is more to it here then a raise or bonus!! I will stand my ground and last one day longer than the company can.
Posted by: Rose Location: Wichita on Aug 24, 2008 at 10:31 PM
Non Union is so right about HBC management being incompetent. I guaranty you that 99.9 % of managers, team leaders, only have their jobs because of who they know. When someone makes manager, they bring in their friend, even if they have never worked in that field of work or not. Then it just keeps snowballing. Alot of management get their jobs because they were an overnight ( success)!!!!!!! HBC needs to clean out management, then maybe the workers would have more respect for the company.
Posted by: union worker Location: ict on Aug 24, 2008 at 10:25 PM
this is to Sharon..i found out about the food on friday at 5 pm..too late to make it to the union hall...there as been every lil info at all...and thus is why..if i dont hear anything from the "meeting " or anything..i have sept 8th marked as my day to cross...yall can lose everything you have worked for ..waiting on so far as i can tell..no progress ..or yall can get paid and be glad you have a job ..and then hold the union at task for treating us like mushrooms...feeding us bull and keeping us in the dark....what are they keeping from us??? everything is so hush hush .....makes me wonder??
Posted by: Parent University on Aug 24, 2008 at 10:13 PM
Anonymous -- I'm a very careful driver, with good brakes and excellent eyesight. Not sure about the car ahead or behind of me, though. Guess those striker parents can't be troubled with that sort of concern, though.
Posted by: inocentkrazy Location: wichita on Aug 24, 2008 at 09:46 PM
bill, it so baaaaaaaaaad do you have sheep around, and a union whistle hangin around your neck! Because we have the right to do whatever we have to do to tell the truth that it is/was a bad contract, and I am still "ON VACATION" giving myself what the company would/could do/did't
Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 24, 2008 at 09:30 PM
bill, so 52 hundred workers do not impact the comunity, yehhhhhhhhhhh the 4700 n 500 in Salina n Wichita u must be a salad r salery , mn maybe celery employee, get a life {:"
Posted by: king air flight Location: hbc on Aug 24, 2008 at 09:18 PM
HBC King air is doing great. The pickers are living in a fantacy thinking HBC is hurting. Just look up in the sky there is your proof, you dont need to come inside the gate. DONT GIVE UP STRIKERS!
Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 24, 2008 at 09:15 PM
ParentUniversity, you must not be a good driver or else your brakes dont work get real, have you run over a child lately since its still summer, maybe you need glasses r wtvr
Posted by: Bill Location: Wichita on Aug 24, 2008 at 09:12 PM
Hang in there fellas. The parking lot keeps getting bigger day by day. Aircraft are still being delivered. Local businesses appreciate the added income that normally isn't there. Not everyone can be a leader so follow the heard and go BAAAAACK to work.
Posted by: krazyaboutmyvacation Location: ElDorado on Aug 24, 2008 at 08:41 PM
rebuttle to "thoughtsofconcern" laughin, you don't know what they are doing, along with the "motion sensor's" in plant 4, as you may not know, supervision is trying to do the job of qualified technician's, that's why a few month's ago they started 'rotating' supervision, too learn a (lil) job that really required skill's other than 'seeing' how it is done, and do you know why they recorded you for a "time analysis", THAT was because they are going to send YOUR job to either and or Mexico n China, so enjoy your job as I am sure that you are a very nice person, but under pressure like my brother's and sister's I can guanantee that you will make more money when we win, because our goal is too make life better for all!
Posted by: Parent University on Aug 24, 2008 at 08:29 PM
To Krazy -- Oh, I see. Your freedom to do what you want is more important than keeping your own young children from being run over. That would explain the kids sitting on the curb on Webb Road today with their feet in the street. Thanks so much for clarifying that parental analysis for the rest of us.
Posted by: Upset Location: Wichita on Aug 24, 2008 at 08:17 PM
Hey Union Proud....stop name calling. There is no need for it. So what if someone called you a name or whatever. Take the high road. No need for name calling and cussing.
Posted by: NON-UNION Location: SUPORT STRIKE on Aug 24, 2008 at 08:15 PM
How cruel you are? if you do are not union, you are not getting any help, food or money!! I am not working because the company treats you like a slave. I still strike!!!! If you are a scab you are a slave of HBC! Do not fight any more again one each other. Quit being hostile. Support the strike. Teach HBC that management is incompetent, that is the reason why that company is in so bad shape.
Posted by: thoughtsofconcern Location: ict on Aug 24, 2008 at 08:04 PM
krazyaboutmyvacation, talk about good rumors, think hard about what you are trying to get people to swallow, fired up a plane in plt 4 because no tow available. get real, the planes don't even have oil or fuel in them leaving plt 4, that gets done in flight.
Posted by: Sharon Location: Wichita location on Aug 24, 2008 at 07:53 PM
Were all of the strikers informed that you could receive food every week. My husband who is honoring the strike thought it was a one time thing. As usual no one ever tells you anything, and if you call and ask a question, again no one ever knows anything. Where are all of the union people that should know things? At the casinos?????
Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 24, 2008 at 07:46 PM
To unionpround you do not know what is going on in people's lives that may make them croass the lines. Sure some is pure greed but others do it for reasons that are truely none of your business. So unless you no the truth behind why each person is doing what they are doing you should just smile and stand behind your man while I thank mine that I will stay healthy.
Posted by: unionproud Location: wichita on Aug 24, 2008 at 05:34 PM
To all scabs and non union members, don't call my husband or talk to him at work because the company fired your lazy a%$ and you need union representation..That is pretty sad you act all big typing your hate for the union but who do you call when you get fired THE UNION thats who.
Posted by: krazyaboutmyvacation Location: ElDorado on Aug 24, 2008 at 05:18 PM
"thoughtsofconcern" good rumor, but untrue. "insider"&"ParentUniversity" it's still AMERICA(FREEDOM) to do what we want."HBCSTRIKER"&"unionworker" yep unskilled worker was told to move a plane in plant4 with no tow so fired up n moved the plane. HBwife, yes the union met with the compaqny and they are deadlocked thanx to Dan Dymarkowski once again. "Anonymous" so how much time do you spend at a stop light, is 30 second's THAT important to you? for us to be free to our god given right's in AMERICA> why do you think America was built by union's, just curious as this is a peaceful strike for what we beleive in and we have the right! Thank You all "brother's&sister's" we WILL win and be proud of our success : }
Posted by: po'D Location: Wichita on Aug 24, 2008 at 05:10 PM
I have been working during the strike, there are a lot of cars in Plant 1's parking lot, and had 3 little strikers. Plant 4 towards the end of the line you would never know a strike was going on. This is absolutely amazing.
Posted by: Reality Check Location: long time aircraft worker. on Aug 24, 2008 at 03:24 PM
Union members should be asking where are all of their dues going. Get factual data on where the money goes. The Union is a very big cooperation, that is making a ton money. Why don’t you demand accountability for every dime? Why is the Union unable to provide full coverage health care insurance, & 0% loans to help through strikes? I am challenging you, give me honest factual answers. Do any of you know how wealthy your Union is? When the strike is over, you need to focus on getting those answers. Hold your Union accountable. Force them to use Union assets to support the membership financially during times like these, instead of furthering their own individual agenda, & lining their own pockets. You’re fighting HBC with a Union that is every bit as greedy & self-serving. Not saying the company is the good guy here, but the Union has done everyone a grave disservice, even if none of you can face it. Sadly its the Union membership that loses, not its Leaders, or the company.
Posted by: union worker Location: ict on Aug 24, 2008 at 03:20 PM
i get a feeling the union and brain washer people into thinking that they arent expendible....wake up....to all you new hires..there were people doing your job long befoe you were at hbc..so look sharp and be aware
Posted by: insider Location: plt 4 on Aug 24, 2008 at 12:51 PM
Veteran knows whats going on don't you. Too bad all the lower union man/woman doesn't then they might see the light. Don't just depend on someone to tell you what is right and the best, do your own research and you will have may eye openers in your life. If you don't pay attention you will be just like the little lamb and be lead right to slaughter for someone elses gain.
Posted by: thoughts of concern Location: ict on Aug 24, 2008 at 12:48 PM
Posted by: Insider Location: plt 4 on Aug 22, 2008 at 01:44 PM Anyone given this much thought and ask questions of our so called negotiators, seems to me I remember one get a new car, and one getting a new motorcycle after the contract of 05. Maybe its time we voted, yes I said we control and vote the negotiators who are supposed to be fighting for all of us, maybe its time to get new ones that don't have their own interest and have the interest of those who they represent in mind. However since the company is going to stop paying them and they will become union full time them, maybe the will fight harder for the ones that will be paying them, instead of the company who has been paying them to cut the hard union workers throat and keep them at work. THINK ABOUT IT, ASK QUESTIONS, THE CONSTITUION GIVES US THAT RIGHT TO QUESTION THOSE IN GOVERNING POWER AND AUTHORITY. STAND UP AND QUESTION THEM I FOR ONE AM.
Posted by: Parent University on Aug 24, 2008 at 12:47 PM
You strikers who bring your kids to the picket line are taking an awfully big chance. Webb, Greenwich, and Central are busy streets -- not a park or playground. The picket line is not a safe place to have your children, with traffic going by like it does. Maybe the union needs to have someone volunteer to sit with kids over at strike headquarters or somewhere that is safer, if the parents have to bring them along. I keep hearing that the strike is about your family, but voluntarily endangering your children doesn't really fit with that argument.
Posted by: insider Location: plt 4 on Aug 24, 2008 at 12:43 PM
march 05 the co. decided to change attendance. The union was contacted and did not have issues since people with step 1&4 would reset to 0 and step two and above back to step 1. The union did not fit this until after the contract of 05 which they recommended you take. then they filed a complaint and went to the arbitrators about it, the arbitrator said since the attendance was not an issue during the contract procedings of 05 then there must not have been anything wrong with what was proposed since it served the unions interest in the beginning but after shafting the people with the contract they decided to save face and fight something they had no control over at that time, too late, so don't say the union couldn't have stopped it, they used it to get the so called trouble makers who don't come to work off their bad attendance. If the people were so upset with this why did most who had 0 infractions miss 9 days before the deadline and then get reset to zero. Hard workers,ha just lazy.
Posted by: HB wife Location: Sedgwick county on Aug 24, 2008 at 11:39 AM
Any news on whether or not the union and HBC met? If they did are they talking or not. Rather tired of having my husband home almost all the time.
Posted by: Veteran Location: HBC on Aug 24, 2008 at 11:22 AM
Insider may have hit the nail on the head.The truth, HBC has told the union full time people like her that they will no longer pay their wages, they must get it from the union themselves and there will be no big bonuses to get the work force to take or not take a good contract offer. So I believe the upper union people have a hidden agenda that was not explained to the lower man/woman. Only deceit to serve their purpose. One other thing they have not told us is that they will no longer have super seniority ! Go figure people. To Steve in Salina.... yes there were jobs already headed to Mexico, but the list just got bigger ! What we all need to realize is that everyone of us can be replaced.We are not just competeing against HBC,this is a global economy and there are a lot of people around this world that want these jobs badly.Don't be foolish to think they can't learn them.
Posted by: HBC STRIKER Location: Wichita on Aug 24, 2008 at 10:51 AM
krazyaboutmyvacation: I am in total agreement with you. What is the starting the plane's engine within a building? Please explain. Sounds interesting... Stand strong HBC Strikers!!
Posted by: union worker Location: ict on Aug 24, 2008 at 10:45 AM
see...amon....you are a new hire arent you and you didnt read the contract at all... ..... near the end of the 2005 contract the company changed to the double infraction rule...the union filed a grievence with the labor board..the labor board over ruled them saying that each company can set their own attendence policies....and as for ppk...that was the company's offering we had a choice between ppk and the blue cross /blue shield....ppk was not the union's "magical" save all the money plan...and as i said before if the union had such a money saving plan..why didnt they even mention a name to us in the flyers or anything...i dont believe it existed or it wasnt any good and the company opposed it..... amon...you have to be a rookie..there is no way you have been with the company more than 2 years ... this negiotating team asked for pie in the sky things from a new company...good luck!!
Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 24, 2008 at 10:17 AM
Response to hardworker Posted onon Aug 23, 2008 at 09:39 PM: I have every respect for the strikers and thier right to do so. Most salaried workers do. However, when you hold us up from going to work, something we have no chiose but to do, it make some people angry. Just as you do not want me to charaterize every union worker by what a few have said and done, you do the same thing by saying salaried workers are all out to run you over. What you are doing is interfering with interstate commerce, which is a federal offence. You have the right to stand out and make your point, but you do not have the right to stop anyone from going to work. The injunction actually nullifies the "right to work" law (at least for 30 seconds). If the company had a brain in thier head, they would have used that as a basis for a more severe injuntion. What would happen if the salaried workers stood on public property and stopped hourly folks from getting in and they were late? Freedom to assemble!
Posted by: union worker Location: ict on Aug 24, 2008 at 09:04 AM
there is never a signing bonus....and you are right we will go in after the 4th...what a perfect story line for the union newspaper....i can see the headlines IAM ends strike on labor.....it would be a huge win for th eunion..i guess???
Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 24, 2008 at 08:41 AM
I believe the name of the insurance is PPK!
Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 24, 2008 at 08:35 AM
Need to have the double infraction rule taken away too. Please fight for this negotiators!!
Posted by: anonymous on Aug 24, 2008 at 08:34 AM
WE DESERVE A SIGN ON BONUS? WILL OUR NEGOTIATORS ASK FOR ONE? Sure we wouldn't get one anyway...can't even get appropriate sick time....
Posted by: ????? Location: KS on Aug 24, 2008 at 12:09 AM
THERE NEVER WAS A SIGNING BONUS!!!!! AND EVEN IF THERE WAS.....IT WOULD HAVE BEEN LIKE A FEW YEARS AGO....$500 BEFORE A GIFT TAX OF 30 SOME % AND NO WAGE INCREASE THAT YEAR....WE HAVE NEVER RECEIVED A BONUS LIKE THE OTHER AIRCRAFT COMPANIES HAVE ...AND NVER WILL!!!!!!
Posted by: Anonymous Location: Kansas on Aug 24, 2008 at 12:03 AM
Your dreaming we won't go back to work till after the 4th because the company will need to move there delivery dates. No one thought this would be easy did they.
Posted by: way cool jr Location: grove and central on Aug 23, 2008 at 11:12 PM
yall... wassup...i want a fair contract...4 percent raise...all 3 years is not enough...nor a choice of ins....nor an increase in 401 k.... this is what i want in addtion..i want swag i want free starbucks all night..free krispy kreme doughnuts,..a new i pod each year..so i can look too cool while i work on the 4000...i want free movie tickets ... a hbc fleece pull over ...i want music piped into the bath rooms....i want valet parking...i want a bbq once a month during company time with a concert with a top line entertainer....i want to be able to fly my family around for free....is this too much to ask....yall make me work 40 hrs a week ..in the heat and noise..i cant even strut without my boss getting up in my grill.....the man is keeping me and the IAM down...oh yeah..i also would like to have a 360 x box....and i will vote for the next contract .... word
Posted by: union worker Location: ict on Aug 23, 2008 at 11:00 PM
as staed before by the union...there was not a thing the union could do about the double infraction rule...and if you ask tem they will tell you..they wont in a crowd...and if they telly uo they can..jus call the national labor board...they will tell you that each company makes it's own attendance policies.....i hate to break it to you..but you all did thorw your savins away on this strike...it was the best you are gonna get ...dont ya think it is funny that this "meeting" with the federeal mediator is being so hush hush,....it aint even posted on their website..hmmmmm i wonder that they told the union leadership....i bet it wasnt good..i look for a lot fo us old timers to drop out of the union....they led the sheep to the slaughter..and with boeing possibly walking out you know rooney and the boys are cringing...one day....i know...i know....longer?? and this is to you krazy..years ago a plane was started in a building by a skilled worker and we werent on strike...wat wat??
Posted by: krazyaboutmyvacation Location: homeinElDorado on Aug 23, 2008 at 10:24 PM
Some people just do not understand the union going on strike, we are tired of getting bad contract's and takeaways. The salary people including management and secretaries are working overtime for free, and were told by the company to fill up the parking lot's too make it appear as though more hourly were crossing the picket line, it's all company propaganda and as far as I am concerned I am enjoying my "vacation" when they took away our 5 day's "unpaid time off" from the last contract and also increased the "infraction's" from 3 day's off for 1 infraction to 2 infraction's if you called in, and also if you had a doctor's excuse due to a health problem you could get 5 day's off with only 1 infraction. Amazaing what the company can do to make us slave's with a twist of their magic wand! Also how about starting a plane's engine's within a building, WOW! now that's got to hurt. I am walking the picket line because I want my children, grandchildren and my fellow brother's and sister's to win
Posted by: hardworker Location: wichita on Aug 23, 2008 at 09:39 PM
The reason we stop you is to try and convince you that your only hurting yourselves by giving in to the company's lies. We are permittted to hold you up for 30 seconds by the court injunction that the company attorneys probably wrote for the judge! So we are just following the letter of the law. I feel the police are there to protect us from people like you who have no respect for the picketers and try to run over them, they are also there to make sure the Pinkerton thugs behave. Don't forget your history, the Pinkerton's have killed in the past trying to break up strikes!
Posted by: Amused Location: Wichita on Aug 23, 2008 at 09:29 PM
1.No protection from outsourcing 2.Ins. premium $120 mo. more than the ins. the union proposed. With worse coverage. 3.Sub par retirement package to the one the union proposed. 4. Take away overtime pay after 8 hrs worked. 5.Take away 5 days ETO from employees with less than 5 years. 6.No vacation or paid ETO in the first year for new hires. 7.Alternative work schedule that will have us working 10 and 12 hr shifts 19 on 2 off for the next year or two min. 8.A so called increase in vacation that is really just fudging numbers and will be of no benefit to the majority of employees. Shall I go on? All we want is a fair contract. If we accept this contract they will keep picking away until everything the union has fought for over decades is gone. Posted by: Striker Location: Rose Hill on Aug 23, 2008 at 09:13 AM Welcome to the life of every other non-union person in the USA. Give me a break. "Empolyed since 1974", thank you for actually making an educated statement!
Posted by: union worker Location: ict on Aug 23, 2008 at 09:05 PM
!!! is that so,...hmmmm....well if you read the fine print in the contract,,,,it sez if there is an agreement with between the union and the company..so is that double talk?? and out scourcing is nafta and ron elderidge told us thta laws were fought in congress and not at the table..hhmmmmm yes i am a union memeber..i have been with the union for 9 yrs..i have read the ks labor laws..i know the fed law..the fed law sez they can work you 20 straight ..contract sez 19....but ill bet you that can be null and void if the company needs you to work...right to work state yall and i pray that they do put me on the 3 12's and work 199 straight on that ..i will be completely out of debt in a month,...for real!!!! so if you read this HBC,....dont sing it...jus bring it...ill bring the wallet and the wheel barrel to haul the money to the bank!!! but it is ok..newbies..i thought the same thing you thought about the union when i was a starry eyed new hire..the union leadership changed my mind
Posted by: !!! Location: ict on Aug 23, 2008 at 07:01 PM
to union worker ( which I doubt ) .... WRONG O MARY LOU ... in this here right to work state .... there's no place saying how much overtime a company can work you. That's all done in the union contract. YES I have checked into this before.
Posted by: Anonymous Location: Wichita on Aug 23, 2008 at 06:40 PM
You guys are the biggest bunch of babies. There are so many people that would be happy with what they are offering.
Posted by: union worker Location: ict on Aug 23, 2008 at 05:51 PM
i never read anything abut a signing bonus?? but knowing how the new hires are they could have given them a free ice cream cone and that would have been enough to not walk about ... i swear i cant wait til we get back....there will be so much over time ..i cant wait to hewar the whining and moaning...and ill i can say is that you in fact said no to the best contract we have had in the 9 yrs i have been there..and ill be laughing.,...i am single..my child is out of state so i have nothing but time and a savings account that i love putting money into...and i love to travel..so i am all about it!! you all will find out the very hard way....the union cant do anything about overtime and the amount..except what the feds sez....
Posted by: MmO Location: KICT on Aug 23, 2008 at 04:21 PM
signing bonus?...you got that in print somewhere? I'd like to read that part
Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 23, 2008 at 03:55 PM
Signing bonus? Where did you see that?
Posted by: strikerVictim Location: wichita on Aug 23, 2008 at 03:50 PM
Welp guys.. I held out as long as I could. The old lady can't stand me being home all the time, so she's shoving me out the car by the entrance come monday. Please spare the violence as my eye is already a little blackened. I'm sure you all understand. By the way, she says if I try to escape, she'll toss me back over the barbed wire fence.. hehe 8^D
Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 23, 2008 at 03:44 PM
To Anonymous, Sorry about that. Sometimes things like that happen during a strike. You'll have to bear with us. Please don't demean us kind sir.
Posted by: union worker Location: ict on Aug 23, 2008 at 03:37 PM
rose hill striker... well ..it plainly said in the contract if you worker the 3 12's anything over thaT was double time....jus think about it...yOUR 3 12's was 40 hrs pay....so that would be 12 x double time.. times 13....wow..when i did the math..i would make 8500 dollars every 2 weeks.....that makes no logic to me ..why would a company wanna pay people that much money... i would make over 17000 a month....over 100000 a year..wow....i would be so out of debt and then..if i took a vacation..wow...i would be sitting in the bahamas for a month...to hbc...please please work me like that....me and my gf would rule the caribeans!!! rose hill striker..you did not read the contract did you?? also if the union had this great ins that was gonna save the company so much money...i would love to know the name of the ins company..they didnt provide this name either did they?? sorry rose hill....you have been had with the rest of us union folk... i voted for the best contract we have had !!
Posted by: abunch of bull on Aug 23, 2008 at 01:20 PM
BS that the union chose to not mention the signing bonus that Hawker offered before the Aug.3rd vote!! They knew they would NEVER had gotten THEIR STRIKE that way!! LET THE PEOPLE MAKE THEIR OWN CHOICE!! HA HA HA...Yeah Right!! It's nice getting a paycheck from Hawker Beechcraft every week!!
Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 23, 2008 at 01:18 PM
What happened with the liquids and rocks being thrown? Any arrests? Anyone hurt? Damage to vehicles? This strike is getting ugly cause we know we deserve more. I agree that some people don't deserve the pay and benefits they get but there are many of us that are hard workers and dedicate our entire lives to HBC and we deserve a piece of the pie. I lost control of a couple of my own boys because of the required overtime. I could no longer take them to church and was working 11 hours a day 7 days a week. Try to instill values in your child if your never around them...or if your so tired you pass out. It's very hard on single parents with no family around to help. HBC can't mess with the ETO because the new people just starting... have families too. Yeah, we are out on strike and those men and women are getting angry cause no one CAN HEAR US-they cross the picket line and don't realize how we SOLIDARITY and it makes it harder on those of us that do fight for what we believe.
Posted by: anonymous Location: wichita on Aug 23, 2008 at 01:11 PM
anyone hear what happened with yesterdays talks???????????????????????????????
Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 23, 2008 at 12:26 PM
I thought by this afternoon someone would have responded to my post on Aug 22, 2008 at 08:19 PM. The Union demands respect, but shows none to the salaried workers who have to go to work, most of which are NOT managers and have nothing to do with the negotiations. The Union blames HBC for the fact that they are on strike, yet they made the CHOISE to go on strike. Guess personal responsibility is not one of their strong suits. One of the things that is left off when the Union talks about the contract is that the contract is binding REGARDLESS of performance. I personally could not live with myself if I took a 4% raise every year and did not feel like I earned it. It would bother me no end that EVERYONE got the same raise. Some deserve more, some deserve less, it should be based on performance not a hand out.
Posted by: anonymous on Aug 23, 2008 at 12:14 PM
Anyone hear what happened with yesterdays talks??? Nothing is posted on the IAM sight.
Posted by: Wondering.. Location: wichita on Aug 23, 2008 at 10:48 AM
Someone please explain why the language for anything over 8 hours of overtime on the contract was crossed out but when you get to the diagram of the schedule further down the page, it shows overtime for over 8 hours. Shouldn't this have been crossed out as well? It cancels the other one out.
Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 23, 2008 at 10:27 AM
What happened at yesterdays talks?
Posted by: MmO Location: KICT on Aug 23, 2008 at 10:03 AM
Well put Rose Hill striker. No doubt the stuff is going south..was and or is the plan... ALL along. Strike has nothing to do with it...less open window for them. Anyone bother to check the footprint of the NEWEST Mexico light sub?...........you actually need a building THAT tall for light sub. Next contract will 86 final assy in Wichita
Posted by: Steve Location: Salina on Aug 23, 2008 at 09:40 AM
To on the inside, those jobs that are going to mexico were already on their way. Those were the jobs that HBC told us a year ago that they weren't going but changed their mind 6 months ago to send them. My question is who how many planes you gonna act like your putting out this week??? ONE DAY LONGER!!!!!
Posted by: Striker Location: Rose Hill on Aug 23, 2008 at 09:13 AM
1.No protection from outsourcing 2.Ins. premium $120 mo. more than the ins. the union proposed. With worse coverage. 3.Sub par retirement package to the one the union proposed. 4. Take away overtime pay after 8 hrs worked. 5.Take away 5 days ETO from employees with less than 5 years. 6.No vacation or paid ETO in the first year for new hires. 7.Alternative work schedule that will have us working 10 and 12 hr shifts 19 on 2 off for the next year or two min. 8.A so called increase in vacation that is really just fudging numbers and will be of no benefit to the majority of employees. Shall I go on? All we want is a fair contract. If we accept this contract they will keep picking away until everything the union has fought for over decades is gone.
Posted by: hardworker Location: wichita on Aug 23, 2008 at 08:48 AM
Been there since 1974, you have just 4 years on me, so better watch what you ask for. These mental midgets runing this company might figure they can run this company into the ground with out al of us older people,YOU INCLUDED! Al of hese new college educated mangers,most of whom have never held a regular job, will decide that Wichita will only be an administration area for HBC. In fact i will be surprised if that part emains here, don't forget jim Schuster.s family dosen't even live here, the company flies him home to Texas every weekend to be with them. Can you say HBC, home office Laredo, TX. Closer to the plant in Mexico, making it easier to run the company that way. So to all the Managers passing themselves off as crossing workers and interested citizens of Wichita, you should thank us for fighting for your jobs. Hang in there brothers and sisters, we will will win and then the nay-sayers will thank us for getting them a better contract to cover them!
Posted by: thinkaboutyourfuture on Aug 23, 2008 at 07:08 AM
THANK YOU - Employeed since 1974!!!! Maybe when people start reading your comment (8 /22 8:29 PM) about the companies Right's - they'll realize it's in their best interest to get back to work - 650 laid off Eclipse workers could soon be on the way here. We've already seen some of those workers come to work since the strike started. WAKE UP PEOPLE!!
Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 23, 2008 at 05:46 AM
Funny how none of the Union posters here chose to respond to the item Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 22, 2008 at 08:19 PM. Must have hit too cl0se to home.
Posted by: on the inside Location: plt1 on Aug 22, 2008 at 11:50 PM
Don't worry Steve, Your jig will be up and running really soon in Mexico. Take a look at how many Old Dominion trucks have rolled south since you went out. Brilliant idea. While your gone, HBC has filled 5 trucks a week with your small assembly jigs. You and your buddies allowed it all to happen right under your noses and they made you think it was your idea to strike. Wake Up. This isn't about your stupid contract. While your holding that sign on the corner, they are replacing you piece by piece. But hey, don't believe me. I'm only there everyday watching it happen. Just because I'm salary doesn't mean I want to work for Cessna. Get in there or you and Pat will be in the unemployment line.
Posted by: strikerwithjob on Aug 22, 2008 at 09:36 PM
The picket line might not be full but many of us have other jobs to keep the bills paid and live too far away to drive on strike pay. I put my 4 hours in one day a week. Sorry, wish I could be there more. My heart sure is on the picket line!!!
Posted by: Employeed since 1974 on Aug 22, 2008 at 08:29 PM
Federal Law allows any company to permanetly replace striking employees at any time if the Union membership makes it known that they are striking to force economic gain. A company can not permanently replace striking workers if they are sriking to improve safety or substandard working conditions. This law was implemented as a result of the MacKay Supreme court decision. When workers are permantely replaced at the time the Union and the Company is able to come to an agreement, all workers that were replaced are to be put on a preferred concideration list, and will be given preferred concideration in the event the job that they held prior to permanent replacement becomes open. I for one wish they would take advantage of this strike to clean house.
Posted by: hbc UNION WORKER Location: andover on Aug 22, 2008 at 08:22 PM
You mean they FINALLY quit paying Jack Deboer to use his airplane for certification testing, it was RC5 I believe? Saying that is an accomplishment is a joke, strike or not.
Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 22, 2008 at 08:19 PM
When the Union stops with the demeaning comments to those who cross the line, this includes Union, Non-Union, and Salaried, I promise I will stop my demeaning comments here. When the Union strikers let me pass through the gates without stopping me for 30, 20, or even 10 seconds, I will stop the demeaning comments. On that morning you speak of that all of your "friends" from other companies were there. There were arrests, liquid throwin, rock throwing, and other poor behavior. When the police went to the seen of the accident, the Union went wild. Now this could be one of two things. One, the police presence at the gate was the only thing keeping you from destructive behavior, or the other Union members from other companies are not as civilized as the HBC Union is. I respect your right to strike, respect my right to go to work. Your rights end when they impinge upon others.
Posted by: thinkaboutyourfuture on Aug 22, 2008 at 06:31 PM
Steve - if you read my post slowly it said WHEN 51% cross. Right now a little over 1000 hourly users have crossed the HBC picket lines - with an average of 75 more a day Mon thru Wed (last week). In a couple more weeks if 51% of the hourly workforce cross the line - then good ole' HBC could explore the option it has to REPLACE all the remaining hourly workers that have not come back to work. So just think about that - I'm not saying it's going to happen - but it could - so everyone needs to think for themselves (and their families) and not let anyone else make that decision for you!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Oldphart on Aug 22, 2008 at 06:15 PM
To sick wife: My prayers are with you. To Jonathan: Pursue your education NOW! No sense arguing with a pig, they will drag you into the gutter, and then will beat you with experience. To the numerous "anonymous" signatures offering comments. Be proud of your ability to contribute. But please consider how you may be perceived before adding your comments. Write as if it were you being the intended audience. Was your contribution worthwhile? Why not add discussion that would either resolve the strike, restore quality to the product, enable ethical behavior in the workplace, or provide moral support for those caught up in the strife? Name calling, slurs, and demeaning comments add no value here or any other public forum.
Posted by: Anonymous Location: Kansas on Aug 22, 2008 at 05:59 PM
The contract was right for me the last vote. I will stay out till we vote again. We have lost more then we will gain. I hope all the strikers have read the contract again and will realize that this contract was not that bad. Just a little tweeking and we should all be back to work.
Posted by: Anonymous the 10th on Aug 22, 2008 at 05:39 PM
Anonymous- You must suffer from short term memory loss......Did you forget Monday morning? Don't you worry, we are all still united in solidarity. See ya soon! Stand proud union members!
Posted by: ken Location: plant 4 on Aug 22, 2008 at 05:39 PM
To sick wife, I'm sorry if you are sick, but your husband did have other options if he would have checked. First you can apply for cobra coverage by Oct. 2 and all of your bills would be paid from August 4 on. If the strike is settled before that date we will all be braught back whole and your bills paid. I know this because my dad went through 3 strikes at Beech in his 40 years and it was always done so. Also I have talked to people from other aviation co. and the same was done for them. And lastly my wife works for an insurance company that provides coverage for us in the past and other aviation co. and the have had to go back in and pay all the medical bills that people acroud while they were on strike. Check with the union first before you cross, they will help you
Posted by: 819 Location: plant 4 on Aug 22, 2008 at 05:38 PM
that 4000 was all ready in flight don't see anything coming out of plant 4 beechjet shut down , permair shut down and we all know the problema with the 4000 line and i heaard the king air is going backwards lol so keep talking scab the union will be there to bail you out
Posted by: Steve Location: Salina on Aug 22, 2008 at 05:23 PM
To the idiot "think about your future" here in salina we have only 61 scabs that has crossed out of 500 that are here. I hope you walk in create a tag and get fired for being a moron. We need to continue to stand strong brothers and sisters. We are winning this battle. There isn't 51% crossing and who cares they still aren't building any planes. My jig is empty and my building is closed right now because they don't have a clue on how to do our jobs, management is painting with the scabs.... I think its funny. HBC wants to run their company down the tubes let them. We can't let the corporate greed take over. To all of you that are complaining about us strikers, maybe if you would listen to what we are saying or read the contract, you would understand why we are striking. I am ready to go back to work but I have my priorities and I won't be a scab......
Posted by: union worker Location: ict on Aug 22, 2008 at 05:12 PM
the strikers seem to forget that the strike is 24 7....i have put in about 12 hrs of walking..and i voted for the contract...it is funny to hear the whisyle blowing and the banging around..i expected a mobn all day and night..oh well....one day longer....oops ..when they can put down the x box
Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 22, 2008 at 04:58 PM
Before you say it was "shift change" There was only one person besides the driver on the Union Blue Short Bus.
Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 22, 2008 at 04:57 PM
Nothing says Union solidarity like this: 6:00am 0 picketers at the Gobal Entrance 4:30pm 2 picketers at the Gobal entrance 0 picketers at the E lot entrance 1 picketer at the Delivery Center Entrance Way to go...!
Posted by: ICT Location: ICT on Aug 22, 2008 at 04:33 PM
To Sick Wife-God bless you and yours. Anyone who belittles any decision made by anyone else is NOT human.
Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 22, 2008 at 04:19 PM
To 819 -- No airplanes, huh? What about that nice 4000 delivered to Jack DeBoer today? Right -- I know -- you strikers had it all done before you left.
Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 22, 2008 at 03:26 PM
To Sick Wife: I know it must have been a difficult decision for your husband to cross the line, and unfortunately, he will probably have to hear about it for a long time. But, he had to do what he had to do for his family, just as the strikers are doing what they feel they must do. Everyone has their own free will to stand up for what they believe in, and he has put his family first! Kudos to him. I guarantee you the union won't pick up your medical bills. I have a few of my own now since we went on strike. I have just paid out more than the increase in insurance premiums would have cost me to begin with. I hope you get better, and God Bless!
Posted by: cliff Location: wichita on Aug 22, 2008 at 03:10 PM
anonomyous, thats right you dont know, I might be in the cubical next to you undermining your antiunion posts.
Posted by: union worker Location: ict on Aug 22, 2008 at 02:52 PM
cliff you're half way right ..no you didnt have to apply at spirit but they did give you the option of re applying or signing a wavier to allow them to look at your boeing resume and application.. i had a friend that worked at boeing ..spirit hired him...they had the first contract vote ..and he was fired 2 weeks later....so yes that same thing could happen at hbc ..after they get us all under a 3 year contract....and nothing the union can do but to throw a hissy fit ...again...right to work state
Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 22, 2008 at 02:04 PM
Maybe Spirit should have NOT kept CLIFF - he's always writing comments all times of the day - DOES HE/SHE REALLY work??
Posted by: HBC STRIKER Location: Wichita on Aug 22, 2008 at 02:01 PM
The company needs to take this opportunity to weed out the worst of the worst before they have the union back to protect them again. If you are dumb enough for going in without a contract, (though the company says you are falling under the old contract, which is EXPIRED- and us union folks are snow- balled??? ha!) then you DESERVE to get fired by HBC because you refused to work out of your job code.. How funny.. The people who got fired for refusing to work out of their job code, should have stayed out and then you would have a RIGHT to object to working out of your job code. HMMM... The union is good for something. STICK IN THERE STRIKERS!!!!!
Posted by: Insider Location: plt 4 on Aug 22, 2008 at 01:44 PM
Yes, it was the best contract in 20yrs. Yet, the negotiators recommended we strike for better. It was certainly better then the last 5 contract offers, recommended to accept by the negotiators. Ask yourself why? Was it because they all got big payoffs to get you to take it, new cars, boats, motorcycles, etc. Rita got $99,000 in 05 for her job, public record, what did she do to earn it? The truth, HBC has told the union full time people like her that they will no longer pay their wages, they must get it from the union themselves and there will be no big bonuses to get the work force to take or not take a good contract offer. So I believe the upper union people have a hidden agenda that was not explained to the lower man/woman. Only deceit to serve their purpose. Yes, I crossed , I struggled hard and long whether to or/not, but in the end I have a wife/family that needs me, no hidden agendas. So do whats best for yours. Union dues WILL go up when back to work! COUNT ON IT from your 4%
Posted by: Wichita Location: Walter & O.A. Beech Dr. on Aug 22, 2008 at 01:24 PM
Sure was generous of HBC to donate the use of their vacant parking lot at Central & Webb for people to park in for the Wichita Flight Festival this weekend.Per the newspaper they will then be shuttled to Jabara Airport. Friday 6:30PM-? Saturday 9:00AM-5:00PM Sunday 11:00AM-5:00PM Maybe, if the shuttles are full they can fly in or out with Jim Schuster daily so they can avoid crossing the picket lines like he does. Have a Nice Weekend!!!!!
Posted by: thinkaboutyourfuture on Aug 22, 2008 at 12:44 PM
Cliff - I stand corrected about Spirit and If you still work at Spirit, I hope your working 3rd shift otherwise they're paying you good money to surf the web and make postings on this website. My point was that once HBC get's 51% of the hourly workforce back to work they could permanently replace all the remaining hourly workers still out on the picket lines and the union couldn't help, once it get's to that point.
Posted by: cliff Location: wichita on Aug 22, 2008 at 12:22 PM
"thinkaboutit" thats not the way it happened at spirit, we didnt have to apply, the company made the decisions on who to keep and who to not keep. also, there was no strike going on then.
Posted by: Union Made on Aug 22, 2008 at 10:58 AM
The only reason that the scabs slam the union is because they feel guilty for benefiting from the sacrifice of the strikers. They're just trying to rationalize being bottom feeders.
Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 22, 2008 at 10:47 AM
Hey "DUHHHH!" That name fits you perfectly.
Posted by: thinkaboutyourfuture on Aug 22, 2008 at 10:45 AM
One thing the strikers need to think about is that once the company has 51% of the hourly workforce back to work, it could easily permanently replace all the people on the picket lines - and if those people wish to return to HBC the would have to re-apply with HBC (much like what happened at Spirit). So choose wisely what you plan to do for your future and that of your families
Posted by: geez on Aug 22, 2008 at 10:26 AM
They will call our men and women scabs because they will say that it was them not staying out that lost their battle and blah blah blah! When in reality it was themselves that lost the battle because there shouldnt have been a strike in the first place!
Posted by: union worker Location: ict on Aug 22, 2008 at 10:04 AM
this is to all the scabs.... i aint sure if that is the correct term since they didnt come in off the streets and work ..they were already employeess..but any how..when this is over ...if you were my friend when we left you will be my friend when we return...i have no hard feelings ..we all should share one goal..build airplanes and get paid!!!! will i remain in the union?? i am debating i have my reason if i drop out...i am sick of the double tak and all.. but if i stay ..i guarantee there will be some changes started by me ...we had too many people showing off on tv that didnt even now the union contract..would not look up info and was too busy spouting off about things they knew nothing about and that will end!!!! i promise!!
Posted by: union worker Location: ict on Aug 22, 2008 at 09:56 AM
Jonathan...Jonathan..Jonathan... i hate to be the bearing of the bad news...but you were had byt the union.. they didnt tell you this but..... according to the National Labor Board.. Attendence policy are set but each company .do you think we always have had the double infraction attendence ??? that was set mid way between the 2001 and the current contract....guess what the union finally told us there was not a thing they could do about it. as for the shift changes that too is up to the company...i know what i am talking about i have been bounced around shifts for years...i have been there 9 yrs ..you new guys have been so misled...the union is not a cure all nor can it fix any of the work schedules... and also Jonathan please get a copy of the new contract and always read the fine print...it always sez unless there is an agreement between the union and th ecompnay on jus about all the rules of the contract... and also..union brother...please educate yourself on the contract
Posted by: Tired of childish Behavior on Aug 22, 2008 at 09:32 AM
"819" The union hasn't done anything but call people names this entire time. In the end everyone will probably get the SAME contract offered the 1st time or maybe something worse THANKS to the union. Are you gonna call the crossers scabs when go back to work with them? Doubt it!!
Posted by: Sick Wife on Aug 22, 2008 at 09:13 AM
I think it is sad that for the next few years my husband will be known as a scab. He beleves everything the union stands for and was out on thise picket lines until my conditions got worse and we need our health insurance back. It was the hardest thing he ever had to do. And while some of you will never understand why he did what he had to do I respect him for knowing that I needed him. Crossing the lines was not about the money it was about life. This is not easy for anybody and it is everybodys hopes it will be over soon. No matter what side you are on stay strong for what you believe in. Nothing is worth losing a nother life over.
Posted by: DUHHHH! on Aug 22, 2008 at 08:37 AM
The meeting was called by the FEDERAL MEDIATOR, say it with me folks...FEDERAL MEDIATOR, as in the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, ok lets go over this again kids....THE MEETING OF THE TWO SIDES WERE CALLED TOGETHER BY THE FEDERAL MEDIATOR. Not the company, not the Union, AGAIN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. Do you forget there is a federal government part of Hawker...called JPATS? I am sure that they are wanting their trainers (planes, for those that post on here that have nothing to do with Hawker) so they helped step in. Get your facts straight 'yes', no one is scared, especially Hawker. I love the scabs cuz they heal wounds!! GO SCABS!!! I LIKE THE OT!!! MONEY MONEY MONEY....MONEY! And you are just mad 'striker' cuz those lazy scabs crossed the line and now they are doing your job and getting paid for it! Lordy, go back to work!! Do the American economy a favor and go to work and quit striking over a lost cause!
Posted by: 819 Location: plant 4 on Aug 22, 2008 at 08:27 AM
LOOK!!!!!!! the end of week two still no update ,look's like planes are not moving atleast not the way up to flight that's ok the union will bail the scabs out !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Posted by: Sam Location: Kansas on Aug 22, 2008 at 08:03 AM
To kn:Your husband only makes $10 an hour because he works for Augusta. Been there, done that. Both of my sons are firefighters and they do put their lives on the line every time they walk out the door.But to make better money and get better benefits your husband better jump ship now. And that is his fault. To pyromania: you are just an idiot that has no respect for anyone. But you will have to be one of the victims that needs spit on when the flames are closing in on you. To all the HBC strikers:stay strong. I hope these new talks bring a good contract so that you can get back to work. But if you don't stand up for what you believe in, who will. And for the scabs that were in the union when this started: I would suggest you look for another job once the strike is over. Or get eyes in the back of your heads. You certainly don't have any brains in there.
Posted by: Excuse me? on Aug 22, 2008 at 05:55 AM
Jonathon -- Glad you are furthering your education, but why is it up to HBC to accommodate your class schedule, rather than your responsibiity to figure out a class schedule that fits your 3:30 shift start time? Let me guess -- you're under age 30?
Posted by: unionalmighty Location: wichita on Aug 21, 2008 at 10:41 PM
"GO CROSSERS!! Stand up for what YOU believe in and continue to get the 'forced' OT! We love the OT at our house, just means more money in the vacation jar!! THANKS STRIKERS!!!!" <-- Spoken like a true scum of the earth. I never thought there were this many arrogant, cantankerous people lurking in the shallow depths of Wichita. They are not scabs, they are the festering bubonic plague on the skin of the working class. To the pits of he*l all ye shall be cast.
Posted by: HBC STRIKER Location: Wichita on Aug 21, 2008 at 10:32 PM
This has all turned so hateful and ugly and I can't wait for it to end. It has a purpose but I am so drained from it all..... Get it over with UNION AND HBC. Let us workers get back to work and business as usual..... PROPS TO ALL HBC STRIKERS, IT HAS NOT BEEN EASY, GOD BLESS YOU....
Posted by: Jonathon Location: Wichita on Aug 21, 2008 at 08:52 PM
The contract was bad. I spent two years at york, so I know what a bad contract looks like. This contract wasn't even close to where it should have been. Yeah I'm striking over forced OT. Yeah I'm striking over attendance. I got to college some of my classes go till after 3:00. I have to speed to work to get there on time cause I know if im late im fired. Thats not right. Now they want the ability to tell me with no notice I have to work until 2 or 3 in the morning when I got a class at 7am? Thats not right. I should be able to work here and go to school at the same time. I don't care about money, I wouldnt be going to school to be a high school teacher if I did. The strike is about the other stuff. I like working at Hawker, but I dont want to live there. No mandatory sunday, is that too much to ask for? No forced 10 hour days is that to much to ask for? Apparently it is.
Posted by: striker on Aug 21, 2008 at 08:46 PM
If all the union workers (scabs) that crossed the line are lazy....FIRE them!!!!! NO union there to help them and they get what they deserve!!!
Posted by: union worker Location: ict on Aug 21, 2008 at 07:33 PM
i know why we struck....the union math ..the company pays 85 we pay 15 on the ins..i heard a union bro say that at the end that he would be paying 45...15 is 15 is 15..i know exactley why we went out...the union snake charmed with fancy equations....fast talk and the people did notuse common sense ..and read the contract for themselves..and i bet you all dont know this..at the end of jus about every part of the contract it sez..unless there is an agreement between the union and the company..and that is all through the union book ..so good luck on what you all are calling forced overtime....lol...when we go back...hbc..management please put me on the 3 12's and work me 19 straight...lol..i will be out of debt completely in a month..that would be me making 8500 every 2 weeks....see bros and sisters...when i typed that how crazy would hbc be to pay me like that ..but if they want to..i am single...so...i am all yours ....make me rich!!!!
Posted by: yes Location: ICT on Aug 21, 2008 at 06:35 PM
hahahaha the hawker beechcraft r scared.. WHO GOT DA POWER!
Posted by: PO'd on Aug 21, 2008 at 06:28 PM
All kidding aside, I don't think everyone knows why they are striking
Posted by: The Punisher Location: Wichita on Aug 21, 2008 at 06:22 PM
Is this all you got;now? Forced OT. You're #'s are dwindling rapidly. Quit whining & go back to work or find another job.
Posted by: union worker Location: ict on Aug 21, 2008 at 06:05 PM
cliff... i hav epaid 9 years of union dues and have never filled one grievence,,so bite it !!! overtime is the nature of the beast..ask boeing. heck my mom jus retired from cessna and she is 60 working 10 hs a day 7 days a week... mandatory..so ..all you newbies...if you dont like working weekends..i suggest you go somewhere else...you sold your soul and now you are a slave to the monkey....and this is to veteran.,....brother we need to find each other after the strike..you are my twin brother from another mother..and we aint fooled by the union bull thtat the newbies ate up smiling ..double fisted...!!!! no it wont be worth it.....yes..i voted for the best contract we have had in 9 years,,you newbies will wake up...see yall on the line ..19 0n 2 off from now til christmas...you dug the hole ..now lay in it and whine!!it will be 18 and one day longer...lol
Posted by: Won't tell you Location: Andover on Aug 21, 2008 at 05:50 PM
The exact locations are nunya. Let it be said that it has been at multiple restaurants and a couple of bars that I keep hearing a lot of crying, whining scabs. If you want forced OT go to CHINA where Unions are illegal. Then you will know how good you have it here. I understand all about contracts and how they work. I come from a long line of UNION employees. My point was that union or not, scab or not, you all have the same benefits. Not just those who stand up for what is right. Don't try to twist my words around!! Sorry, but from the comments by "To 819" sounds like you crossed just cause you are GREEDY. My family will sacrifice, if necessary when my husband's contract comes up. We have before and will again. "You've got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything" to quote the Aaron Tippin song. Stand Stron HBC Union Members!!!
Posted by: TO ALL SCABS Location: Andover on Aug 21, 2008 at 05:42 PM
It's been said that union people are the laziest people, I would beg to differ since in my shop at another co. the non- union are the laziest and only act like they are working when the boss shows up or the lead is around. Also, the scrap rate among the non-union is higher, as a blame it on bad tooling, or bad programming, when that job has been done for 10 yrs. without any problems with experienced union people. As a skilled union machinist, I trained a non-union person once to show the other non-union people that we aren't as bad as perceived and in return got stabbed in the back by the person I trained.(a scab) I will never train another non-union empl. again. Lesson Learned. Union Strong!! Union Proud!!
Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 21, 2008 at 05:22 PM
Guess youre slipping then Alan.
Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 21, 2008 at 04:42 PM
A union that doesn't strike is like a barking dog without teeth. You lose money but you have to do it. It's like spanking your kids. You have to spank the company every now and then.
Posted by: why on Aug 21, 2008 at 04:39 PM
Why won't you get OT pay PO'd?
Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 21, 2008 at 04:35 PM
B.S. PO'd D.S.
Posted by: PO'd on Aug 21, 2008 at 03:40 PM
Went to work today, the atmosphere is upbeat and friendly. I noticed that most were working, I didn't have to wait to use the mens room. Bathroom foyer stayed clean. I think the salary people needed to get a taste of working the line. In fact I think they were enjoying it. I have to work this weekend because of the strike but am not getting any OT pay for it. We all feel the we need to do this to keep this place afloat for everyone to go after the strike.
Posted by: Veteran Location: HBC on Aug 21, 2008 at 03:37 PM
Yeah ! you will be back to work after labor day ........ with about the same contract !! saying we won! Ask your self if it was worth it.
Posted by: alan Location: Plt 4 on Aug 21, 2008 at 03:37 PM
sure is clear enough...you pull that in my shop and your gone. I've counted more people fired off that floor in two years than I have seen in 30 years total
Posted by: To 819 on Aug 21, 2008 at 03:06 PM
They are under the old contract until a new one is accepted!! Are you kidding me that you didnt know that crossers will get the same contract everyone else gets once its accepted by both parties!!! Oh I am still laughing on that one!! GO CROSSERS!! Stand up for what YOU believe in and continue to get the 'forced' OT! We love the OT at our house, just means more money in the vacation jar!! THANKS STRIKERS!!!!
Posted by: To The Scabs Location: Andover on Aug 21, 2008 at 03:03 PM
"Union Worker" guess I didn't explain fully. I am talking to the ones complaining about their 12 hr days, since the strike started. I fully know all about forced OT since I am married to an aircraft worker from another co. You will make it with a much better offer. I fully support you and the strike, I am just sick of hearing the scabs complain about their 12 hr days and having their vacations cancelled when it was a choice they made when they crossed. They should get a forced 30 day unpaid vacation for crossing(in my opinion). The scabs also forget that they have their benefits and wages because of the Union members who stand up for what is right. Once again, I just want them to quit whining abou