Hawker Beechcraft Machinists To Go On Strike
Hawker Beechcraft Machinists To Go On Strike Save Email Print
Email Address: news@kake.com
185 comments
A | A | A

Machinist union members at Wichita's Hawker Beechcraft plant will go on strike Monday after an overwhelming rejection of the company's last, best and final contract offer late last week.

As soon as union officials announced the results, the room erupted in chants and cheers.

"Do you hear us now?" someone in the room screamed.

"It's time the workers stop having to take everything off their back," says one union official. "It's time to turn things around. We're ready to go to the table and try to get these issues resolved."

The current contract expires at midnight Sunday night. It covers
about 4,700 hourly workers at the Wichita plant and 500 more in
Salina.

The following is a statement released by HBC management Saturday afternoon:

WICHITA, Kan. (August 2, 2008) – Hawker Beechcraft Corporation (HBC) has been informed by the leadership of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers District Lodge 70, Local Lodges 733 and 2328, that the proposed labor contract has been rejected.

Hawker Beechcraft Corporation is disappointed with the union membership’s decision to vote against what the company believes is a fair and equitable package. The company’s offer was the best offer made to employees in more than 20 years.

The company addressed every major issue brought to the bargaining table by union leadership, as the proposed package contains increased wages, more choices in healthcare plans, and improved medical, dental, vision and pension benefits.

A comprehensive contingency plan is in place, allowing HBC to continue with operations. All Hawker corporation facilities will be open and operating Monday in Wichita and Salina. All shifts should report for normal first shift hours unless you have been told otherwise by your supervisor. The HBC call center will be available for employee questions beginning at noon on Sunday. The phone number is 316-676-1060. Employees should also visit the website listed below for more information.
Related Links
More Stories
Outburst Disrupts Robinson Sentencing

KDOT Aprroves Amtrak Study

Hard Rock Drops Plans For KC Casino

More Bad News For State Budget

 Topeka Doc Indicted

Injury Accident During Morning Rush Hour

New County Commissioner Died Before Taking Office

Report: Boeing May Further Postpone 787 Deliveries
Post Your Comments
First Name:
Location:
Enter Comments: characters left
Email (optional):
Email will not be displayed on site. For station contact purpose only.
Read Comments
Comments are posted from viewers like you and do not always reflect the views of this station.
Posted by: common sense Location: Wichita on Aug 18, 2008 at 05:11 PM
Well, all the scabs think this is a good contract? Think about this for a change, this is like a game of chess for the company. Every new hire that gets hired after the contract gets 5 days maximum, while those that are there already gets 10 days. Within the next 3 yrs of this new contract the company is gonna hire a whole bunch of new hires who will only get 5 days ETO. When Contract 2011 comes around , guess what? they are going to offer the new hires 6 days of ETO instead of 5, and Reduce all those that have 10 days of ETO to 6 days, guess how the new hires gonna vote? Thats right, they are gonna vote to accept that contract, and believe me they will, all you scabs that are laughing right now. you won't be laughing when your ETO come down to 6 days on contract 2011.
Posted by: unionproud Location: wichita on Aug 15, 2008 at 11:58 PM
You are getting treated better because you are a tool for the management duh........They don't want to do our job so they are treating you good right now.But don't fight for what you deserve that would be stupid, get a clue.Management is laughing behind your back and you don't even know it.So now thank HBC and Management for making you look stupid......When the strike is over no more free meals,no more good treatment but they used you and you let them.How does it feel????bet you are not a laughing employee now are you..Oh and when we do come back we will look at you and laugh.
Posted by: laughing employee Location: wichita on Aug 6, 2008 at 01:57 PM
I just wanted to say thank to HBC for my job and benefits. Also for all those cheap parts we are able to get by working for you. I also wante to tank HBC for alowing all of to come in and work for such a graet company. It is so much better with out all those sorry union works. STAY HOME we dont care if you dont come back. I am actualy getting more work done and getting treated better.
Posted by: Amazed Location: Ict on Aug 5, 2008 at 06:36 PM
For all the people who voted to strike, I believe a lot of them are not volunteering to walk the line. Way to support your so-called brothers and sisters. In this lifetime, unions are not what they used to be. Why aren't people walking up and down the sides of the fences holding their lovely, hand crafted signs? LAZY! Oh hey I saw some food stamps for sale on EBAY for the person HBC hired to take your place in the factory. You who are on strike and walking the line, I would be very upset with those who are chosing to use this time as a "vacation".
Posted by: quiet obsrvr on Aug 5, 2008 at 05:49 PM
Dear picket line walker, Wow, propaganda is bummer isn't it? So what is your position on the strike now? Do you still believe you made the right decision, or has your perspective on things changed? I believe people are out there for different reasons individually, but I also read the deal and I could see there is pros and cons. But the pressure is high when you got the union in your face. I hope that your able to do what you need to do for your own family. Peace be with you!!
Posted by: picket line walker Location: ict on Aug 5, 2008 at 02:54 PM
i really truly believe after hearing some of the talk on the union bus late last night my fellow union brothers and sisters did not undersatnd the contract and let the union leadership mislead them... i even heard some one say that at the end of the 3rd year we would be paying 45 percent of our ins....the last time i check...15 percent is 15 percent... i would love to have the power over people like these slick tongued leaders have i sure as hell wouldnt be leading a union..i would be leading the world!!! i think the union leaders are the master of puppets.... PEOPLE do your own thinking....Steve Rooney and Tim Franta will never be on the line with you nor will they miss a single paycheck.....why do you think they were laughing and smiling on tv..we have been had!!!!!!
Posted by: antiunion Location: derby on Aug 4, 2008 at 10:06 PM
i am laughing so hard at the comments like "lets see the managers build planes" "HBC will not move on Monday" There wasn't as many but there still was plenty of people that crossed the line and into the machine shop and maybe as far as the engineers comments about them being over paid and they get air conditioning.. They worked hard for there money. They went to college and got there education instead of being a low life scum bag like half of you machinists. Remember without the engineers who actually design the planes you Wouldn't have jobs so dont think that because you are striking that the company is hurting because trust me.. they are not!
Posted by: a contract vet Location: east ict on Aug 4, 2008 at 08:46 PM
it is funny how kake interviewed an employee that has been with hbc for 6 months..this is my 3rd contract vote...i can tell you straight up it is the best contract have had...and union brothers and sisters the union can do nothing about the hours you work . attendence and hours of work or shifts can be changed anytime....it happens all the time and did you also know according to the ks dept of labor a company is not even required to pay you over time til you have worked 46 hrs...dont believe me?? check it out for yourself..itwill open your eyes and to you newbies...did the union also tell you that a company can also set their own attendence policy and that is the labor law according to the union and the us dept of labor....i bet they didnt tell you that did they??now blow your whistle !!!!!
Posted by: Anonymous Location: Ks. on Aug 4, 2008 at 06:35 PM
It is no suprise why hbc workers are on strike. It is the only way hbc and the union can turn plant #3 over to ONEX & partners. Can't wait until plant #3 is seperated from the square mile and union workers in that plant find themselves working for a new employer. At what rate? senority same as any new hires. Sorry you should have seen that one coming!!!! Where were those transfer papers???? Ask yourself- how in the world wouldn't higher ups in the union be unaware of this??-- well with a strike--no contract--no union to deal with--no union members to deal with--so we lose a few members--whats the big deal...they all had a chance to transfer...most in the plant are non union anyway---that will teach them that they should have paid their dues!!! and by the way this sure does give the union more ammo. membership rate is sure to go up.!!! good luck to all-just don't be misled down the wrong trail by the wrong people in order to complete the sale of RAC.
Posted by: Anonymous Location: ks on Aug 4, 2008 at 04:59 PM
I am just curious why you people go on strike. You don't get paid. You should be thankful that you have a job that pays more then minimum wage like some people are surviving on.
Posted by: a mad union worker Location: east wichita on Aug 4, 2008 at 03:02 PM
the more and more i think about it...the madder i am getting....the contract was 100 times better than it was 4 years ago...back then the union begger us to take it...and this time they told us to reject it....i smell a funk up in here... i think alot of the new hires thoguth it was cool going on strike..well the insurance went to 120 per year and you will lose 100's if not thousands by walking out and now you will have to be a slave to the company....you will be there 18 days 10 hrs a day..why not cuz the company will make you....yer bills will make you.....you dont see steve rooney or tim franat going with out their pay checks ..nor do you see them ou tin the hot sun walking ..nor do you see them writitng you a check do you?? if i go back to work and the second offering is less than the first....i will be a non union memeber from now on...and i will help bust the union
Posted by: Weak Location: ICT on Aug 4, 2008 at 11:38 AM
Nice support, I am glad the dozens of you came out to support the strike.
Posted by: Reality on Aug 4, 2008 at 09:56 AM
Maybe if we didn't have over 80 million in broken and lost parts they would have the money to give you raises. So Mistreated worker take those parts out of your lunch box and stop playing catch with the rest do your job and shut up!!!!!!! Oh an by the way Cessna has a manufacturing plant in Mexico also!! Opps forgot to mention that.
Posted by: Do They Think We're Idiots? on Aug 4, 2008 at 05:19 AM
OK Sure -- I checked, and you're right. The union's website is telling people who cross the line that they will be fired for no reason, just because they are no longer covered by the union contract. That's stupid. There are thousands of HBC employees who have never been covered by the contract, and they sure don't get fired for no reason.
Posted by: fed up Location: plant 4 on Aug 4, 2008 at 01:49 AM
for those who concerned about ins. the union asked workers whom had medical concerns to let them know... their ins. would cover it. as for the threat of violence, i haven't heard a single union leader suggest or condone it. as far as those who say they work there and think the contract is good are the ones who surronded the mgmt like a bunch of cattle being fed. they soaked up their lies like a sponge. i was not fond of the ins. last contract but at the time i was willing to budge. i am not willing to take it anoter 3yrs plus pay more for it. look at the fine print and read between the lines. on any contract a small word can make a HUGE diff.
Posted by: silent observer Location: wichita on Aug 4, 2008 at 12:51 AM
If HBC wants to be as successful as Cessna first they need to get rid of all Management that still think it is Raytheon. Then start developing their own aircraft instead of buying others. We all complain about the tankers going out of the country but the PT is a foreign designed aircraft not American. For years Schuster was a part of the problem of tearing this aircraft company apart and he is STILL there. Why do we let this happen? A change starts at the top not at the bottom. Wichita is the aircraft capitol of the world. So why do we let poor upper management hold good people back? IT'S A CESSPOOL AND IN A CESSPOOL TURDS FLOAT TO THE TOP. If we really want to change we have to get managers that have the courage to get things changed. And let us do our jobs and make things happen.
Posted by: ok sure on Aug 3, 2008 at 10:57 PM
Yea the company is going to fire employees who come to work. They are in the middle of a strike and want to keep production going but yea they are going to fire the skilled production guy/girl who walks through the door willing to work! And its already posted that the company will pay OT will they are working during strike. Call them liars or whatever, but lets see your proof that they arent going to pay and then fire everyone!??????
Posted by: what did they want on Aug 3, 2008 at 10:52 PM
What did the union want that they didnt get? The pension went up, the pay went up and I believe the ETO was different and the different work shift, so what exactly do they have a problem with? The insurance stayed pretty much the same. Seemed they price was the same and the coverage was better and there is now a choice on company. I think the insurance was not that great before and the contract 3 yrs ago should have been rejected, but they didnt at that time. So I am just trying to figure out what the exact problem is with this contract? And if the company doesn't come back with a better offer what happens then? Maybe they should all be putting in apps at Cessna??
Posted by: Who on Aug 3, 2008 at 10:49 PM
Who counted the votes? Was it a 3rd party with no interest in the union or company? And why did they give them pencils to cast their votes and no pens? Just wondering!
Posted by: Whatever on Aug 3, 2008 at 10:47 PM
Well now the rumor is the company is prepared to hold out and not speak to union for 6 weeks. Think there will be a union left after that? And the reason for the safety of the crossers-last time, 20 some years ago on the last strike, strikers got past the gate and poured paint on a family members car and also took hammers to others....so has the union changed since then? Are they going to nicely smile to those that cross and move out of the way and not call them names???? I seriously doubt it!
Posted by: Right To Work Location: KS on Aug 3, 2008 at 10:45 PM
"Just know that, as soon as you get to work Monday, be prepared for the possibility of being fired for no reason at all. YOU ARE UNDER NO PROTECTION FROM THE COMPANY - BECAUSE THERE IS NO CONTRACT." My word...you mean they'll be like EVERY OTHER normally employed person in the country? You can move to France if you think you deserve permanent employment for life.
Posted by: Gary-Maddog Location: Goddard on Aug 3, 2008 at 10:09 PM
Stick togeather the I.A.M. doesnot need the outsiders telling us our jobs or our future is not worth fighting for. Most of you have neaver fought for anything or any one. We fight for our jobs our future and the future of this city without us you or this town is nothing. I voted no to the joke of a contract and yes to strike. You must walk in our shoes work in our world before you have the right to tell us we are wrong YOU COULD NEAVER KNOW YOU DONOT HAVE THE SKILL OR THE WILL TO STAND FOR ANYTHING ONE DAY LONGER
Posted by: TotheAnonymousGuy Location: Wichita on Aug 3, 2008 at 09:51 PM
"I too work at Hawker but am nonunion. I walk through plant 4 everyday and see people standing around doing nothing, chatting on cell phones or sending text messages." Funny, I make occasional trips to plant 4, and every single time, people are hard at work. I think you are just a clueless errand boy that stumbles upon people when it just so happens to be break time. "The best time to go to the vending machines or restroom is during break or lunch because no one else is in there." Because they're WORKING and it isn't break time, genius!! You're better off staying in your office and playing with pie charts and bar graphs all day.
Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 3, 2008 at 09:41 PM
all you complainers, that say union is useless, why did you come to HBC, the wage and the wage was not given to you because the company likes you, the wage was fight for you through the union. its our union job, if you dont like it, why dont you find another job and quit milking the union to get you more money of benfits. as for you working with us when we come back, your right we wont forget either, its a 2 way street, as for you getting promoted, hell the compnay can tell what kind of person you are, sell out, even they dont like a sell out. I know of a good insurence companys name id you need references.
Posted by: black jack Location: grundy va on Aug 3, 2008 at 09:32 PM
gonna ahead cross the line and the whole time be thanking God your not crossing a coal miners picket line...
Posted by: Temp/Contract workers Location: wichita on Aug 3, 2008 at 09:22 PM
Some of us are contracted to work at HBC, but we do support the strike. Remember that when all the contract workers cross the line. We will lose our jobs otherwise.
Posted by: PeacefulStriker Location: Wichita on Aug 3, 2008 at 09:15 PM
To all you crossing the picket line - no one ever made any threats about damaging your car, harming your family or shooting your dog. We understand that you have a need to work and support your family as WE ALL DO. Just know that, as soon as you get to work Monday, be prepared for the possibility of being fired for no reason at all. YOU ARE UNDER NO PROTECTION FROM THE COMPANY - BECAUSE THERE IS NO CONTRACT. You should have more fear with management than your fellow union co-workers. Good luck.
Posted by: HBC UNION MEMBER Location: PLANT ONE on Aug 3, 2008 at 09:00 PM
People we live in America not Cuba. Our founding fathers fought for you and me! Our sons and daughters are fighing in the middle east for America. Some of you make me sick! If you can't stand what we're fighting for then shut it up. HBC is a dog eat dog place to work at. Its our war and unless your fighting in it you know nothing about what we indure every day. Don't believe that everybody just stands around talking on cell phones, we have a varience chart that they shove down our mouths and if we do match it then they lower it even more! This is how Raytheon oops HBC (same top level people) do buisness, always taking away. By the way our aircraft is certified in the USA not Mexico, let all the HBC VP's figure that out. I will do my American right and strike!
Posted by: chuck on Aug 3, 2008 at 08:30 PM
im not union and i will cross i hope that the people that are doing all that threats relize they have to work with us to when they come back so do what you want but we wont forget and there wont be a union when it happens
Posted by: hbwife Location: Salina on Aug 3, 2008 at 07:59 PM
If any ahole striker damages my car while its going across the picket line so my husband can earn a paycheck to support our family, they better be prepared to leave the picket line to spend the day in jail!!!!!
Posted by: DJ Michael K. Location: Wichita, KS on Aug 3, 2008 at 07:48 PM
I say if your a hard worker and not one of those who just milks the system... then go for it!! Because the higher ups in our world are getting all the benefits!! Which is not always fair to those who are doing the work. Hikes for costs of living must be accounted for as well.
Posted by: davey copperfield Location: east ict on Aug 3, 2008 at 07:30 PM
i really believe the union led the workers to believe their was a second contract that hbc was gonna pull out of a black magic bag....and it aint happened yet . but really...people did you really believe the company was gonna actually make the 3 12 shifters work 19 days straight..that would be 13 days of double time pay.. bfore taxes....i would make over 8500 every 2 weeks....lol..come on!!!
Posted by: Employed Location: Wichita on Aug 3, 2008 at 06:43 PM
Wow, the nice union thugs are telling their "people" they will be fired by the 'evil' company if they cross the picket line. What a load of garbage,why would HBC fire them? Because they could? What a joke. Nice way to be there for you members, disinformation and threats. I hope HBC has the backbone to hold out.
Posted by: Justin Location: Andover on Aug 3, 2008 at 06:38 PM
I'm a salary worker at HBC and I stand behind the hourly workers because I used to be a hourly worker. I left hourly to get experience in another area since all HBC can talk about is sending everything to Mexico. Striking or not is not going to affect HBC's decision to outsource because our upper management is greedy and will do anything to add a buck to their bonuses. I wish the hourly union workers the best of luck and hope you get what you want. I wish I could show support other than on kake.com but our viscious management at HBC would terminate me. They've told us not to talk to any hourly workers at all. I need at least another year of experience in my field before they fire me or I quit to go to a better employer :)
Posted by: wondering on Aug 3, 2008 at 06:35 PM
i am a female emp who works in the finance dept. I am hourly and not an union member because i work in the offices. You have an issue with the company not me. So why do i have to go to work and wonder if something is going to happen to my car? I have nothing to do with the contract.
Posted by: Supervisor Location: Left HBC for a better life... on Aug 3, 2008 at 06:24 PM
First and foremost if you think the negotiations are one-sided and only in the company's interest think again. Think about the past agreement to let people with 3 years seniority over people with the same job code who were allowed to replace anyone in any department regardless of their home department.... the Hawker Horizon had the youngest crew and lost key experienced people for 8 months. I have seen others complain about cost of rework from Mexico and part shortages on the King Air Line... I guess the millions that were lost in 2006 from worker caused rework can be blamed on Mexico..not! Speaking of America's lost jobs what are people driving to the picket line... all American cars ..not! This means you were not worried about others' jobs but are worried about yours now. You want to fight for a good contract and keep a company alive, reward those of you who work your tails off and write a contract to get rid of the slackers.
Posted by: Guys who says Cessna builds better planes Location: wichita on Aug 3, 2008 at 06:15 PM
To Eric McPherson-Do your research. Cessna delivered 480 Citations to your 160. Cessna has a 16 BILLION dollar backlog. What is yours?
Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 3, 2008 at 05:49 PM
I hope every single Hb employee stupid enough to strike gets fired and Hb gets rid of that ridiculous union. They don't do anything except complain about ridiculous sh**. My husband has worked @ Hb for many years and doesn't support this strike or the worthless machinist union. Our daughter can't be without health ins for even one day so he has no choice but to go to work and cross the picket line on Monday.I hope when my husband does goes to work on Monday that he is promoted to supervisor just for showing up, because he is happy to have a job and a paycheck each week. Who do you think is going to pay for food, chlothes, and medical care for your children when you don't have a paycheck? I don't want a penny of my tax dollars going to any of you just because you are too stupid to appreciate the fact that you have a good paying job and refuse to go! Stop and think about the innocent people you are hurting with this strike.
Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 3, 2008 at 05:37 PM
it amazes me that we have not even been out a day yet and folks already emailing in and telling us all that they have to cross the line because of this and that, we all have our problems, your problems is not more important than my problems. some just whinning and wanting to have there cake and eat it too. we all could give what if's. what if you got fired this week, uh ????? hold out, period
Posted by: Blood and Sweat Location: plant 1 on Aug 3, 2008 at 05:30 PM
Disco Mike let me tell you we lost over 30 peaple last year becouse of the heat. It so happens its cooler outside than inside. A few years ago they closed up all the windows in plant 1 . No way for they heat to excape.
Posted by: union member Location: wichita on Aug 3, 2008 at 05:27 PM
our fight is with HBC not everyone in wichita. untill you have a job there you will never understand.
Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 3, 2008 at 05:26 PM
I too work at Hawker but am nonunion. I walk through plant 4 everyday and see people standing around doing nothing, chatting on cell phones or sending text messages. The best time to go to the vending machines or restroom is during break or lunch because no one else is in there. I understand that the working conditions aren't all that great and that the over time sucks. I work overtime but I don't get paid for it. Try that sometime. Maybe you wouldn't have to work so much overtime if you did your jobs in the first place. Everyone knows that the lines out there don't meet deadlines or delivery schedules.
Posted by: Angel Location: Wichita on Aug 3, 2008 at 05:24 PM
To everyone on strike: I support you! If there is anything you truly NEED help with (bills, food, diapers, etc.) don't be too afraid or too proud to let the union know your needs. There are several resources in the city to help you out. Please don't cross the strike line until you have asked the union for help and they can't supply it. You are standing up for a good cause. One day longer!
Posted by: James Location: Wichita on Aug 3, 2008 at 05:15 PM
Let them strike and open up a job for me. I got a whole 3% raise this year, I'll take their job.
Posted by: DJ Michael K. Location: Wichita, KS on Aug 3, 2008 at 05:00 PM
I think we also need to ask why big company's like this report record sales and income but then turn around and claim they are not making as much. Then they dont give any bonus's to the hourly people..meanwhile supervisers and higher ups get big multiple thousand dollar bonus checks. At least thats what happens at some other companys in town. ...as far as the strike gos... well stand up for what you believe in. I know many of my co workers at my day job would kill to be making more then 12 dollars an hour in our social service jobs. I also understand on the other hand what message these folks are trying to get across as well. Today costs of living are higher then ever!! My concern is healthcare, and other basic resources.
Posted by: Dave W Location: Wichita KS. on Aug 3, 2008 at 04:56 PM
To Rosie Riveter - Bravo!! I couldn't have said it better.
Posted by: Ex HBC Employee Location: ks on Aug 3, 2008 at 04:55 PM
First thing Johnny Utah just sit in your airconditioned office and figure how long it will take to pay off your MBA degree and just keep out of this you can't even start to relate to this in any way what so ever. I worked for HBC for 10 long years till going to Boeing. HBC does treat every hourly employee with contempt. If someone misses work due to any reason the first response the company has is can we fire the person! This strike is long overdue and necessary!!!
Posted by: OverPaiDStrikerGuy Location: Wichita on Aug 3, 2008 at 04:53 PM
Jennifer says "This contract was a heck of a lot better than the last one and any person trying to make it in this world would love to have the wages HBC currently has, raise or not! Its just the union trying to flex their little muscles" LISTEN TO YOURSELF- How did those wages get there? How? U-N-I-O-N. You think companies love paying our wages? They would rather pay pennies per day to those in third world countries with just a pot to pee in (outsourcing) Stop making contradicting points and stop BITING THE HAND that fought for YOUR wages.
Posted by: Plant 3 Emp. on Aug 3, 2008 at 04:52 PM
My son has a medical condition and i must and have to work every week to pay for his medicine. Call me any name you want to but i would appreciate it if you would leave my car alone. I have to go to work on Monday.
Posted by: Angel Location: Wichita on Aug 3, 2008 at 04:49 PM
My husband is NOT a money grubber. He's striking to make less money. It is in the proposed conract that Hawker Beechcraft can have its workers work 10-12 hour days from August 4, 2008 until the contract is up in August of 2011. And they can legally do it!!! No weekends ever and no holidays ever! All the company has to do give the workers 30 day notice that they will be working a holiday and there is nothing workers can do about it. They don't have to give them any notice to have them work 2 more hours per day or that they will be working a weekend. Not that weekends exist anymore! Vacation days HAVE to be used for the week long shutdown in July, not at their own descretion. I support the strikers 100%!
Posted by: Flight Worker Location: wichita on Aug 3, 2008 at 04:32 PM
To Disco Mike and to others making spineless comments about our strike: yes, we will fall behind on finances, yes it will be tough and maybe even a few will have to get hauled off to the e.r. from heat exhaustion. That is nothing compared to the millions of dollars lost per day from lack of production in the plants. Deliveries in the King Air alone are weeks behind (purely the fault of bad management and lack of parts). Who will hurt more? Who won't be able to stand not making the deadlines? The company. When a good contract comes our way, I bet you guys will having nothing else ignorant to say.
Posted by: eastsider on Aug 3, 2008 at 04:03 PM
Yeah, the IAM is really into calling its members "brothers" and "sisters" unless they choose to cross the picket line. Then, its spitting on them, name-calling, harassing phone calls, threats of bodily harm, and vehicle vandalism. I'm sure if any manager at HBC ever treated an employee that badly, the Union would have had kittens. Yet the company is the bad guy.
Posted by: union member Location: paint building on Aug 3, 2008 at 03:57 PM
yes in response to all of those people that are going to cross the picket lines for family reasons that is fine but just remember that if one should decicde to cross the picket lines then they are an at will employee and could be working 4 to 24 hour days in order to get production fullfilled and the pay stays the same no overtime or double time if they choose. So if one must cross just remember that you are an AT WILL EMPLOYEE and it could cost him/her the job that they love so much. Just one more thing that i would also like to add is that "about time the workers stood up for what they believe and not for what C.E.O's want us to believe
Posted by: hawker beechcraft worker on Aug 3, 2008 at 03:01 PM
To "someone who has a set" I drive by you guys every day. You guys work so hard. Are you the one with the shovel or one of the other five standing around watching him? Quit YOUR boo hooing!
Posted by: Jennifer Location: KS on Aug 3, 2008 at 02:50 PM
And by the way, what happens when your out on strike for a week or so and resources are gone for you and the company doesn't come back with anything better, or worse for that matter?? Gee what an accomplishment, I see the union crumbling when all those that cross get kicked out and as the weeks go by the percentage goes down and then there is no longer a union! Gee what a time to srike!! I guess your hard core union have been saving for years but some of us dont have the luxury! And is the rumor true that the higher up union officials still get a weekly paycheck from Hawker during their strike!!?? Wow that would be nice!!
Posted by: Jennifer Location: KS on Aug 3, 2008 at 02:44 PM
So you want a strike, be more mature than a 2nd grader and don't mess with the people who have to cross the line due to their own personal reasons. You are not in those shoes and you have no idea why they have to cross. Some have expecting wives, some need the medical. So do us a favor and don't do the usual tire slashing and hammer banging on vehicles. We respect you going on strike for your reasons. This contract was a heck of a lot better than the last one and any person trying to make it in this world would love to have the wages HBC currently has, raise or not! Its just the union trying to flex their little muscles for the new company! Its sad that most of those I spoke with liked the contract but didn't get off their butts to vote yes to it!! So I will enjoy the overtime!!!
Posted by: Kathy Location: Plant 4 on Aug 3, 2008 at 02:32 PM
Amen, Cessna brother/sister,instead of argueing among ourselves who builds the better planes, we need to stick together. WE build the planes, The CEO's & V.P.'s get the money & benefits. All we ask is that they recognize that they wouldn't get their big paychecks if not for the sweat from OUR backs, & give a little back to us.
Posted by: Right to work Location: Wichita on Aug 3, 2008 at 02:25 PM
The Healthcare costs seem to be a huge issue...I took a look at the Negotiating team,the majority of them are obese.How do you expect to hold down healthcare cost when you don't have the discipline to at least try to stay in some kind of healthful state! For crying out loud they are the reason for the increasing cost of healthcare. They are literally the larger risk! Put down the doughnuts and cigaretts and go to work! 8 for 8!
Posted by: union member Location: wichita on Aug 3, 2008 at 02:12 PM
to the guy who thinks he has a set, i guess your one of the people who thinks we are greedy and overpaid, come on out and and put in your application, untill then you have no clue to what is going on.
Posted by: strike supporter Location: wichita on Aug 3, 2008 at 02:02 PM
I support this stike 100% because it is for a good reason. But.......for you people who are making threats against someone who may have a sick family member who may have no choice but to take care of them, you ae no smarter than the dirt we walk on. Some people have to work but we still support you. People who make threats are only giving the union a bad name.
Posted by: Rosie Riveter Location: Plant 4 on Aug 3, 2008 at 01:57 PM
The fact that Hawker wants to send the work to Mexico has been their plan for at least 8 years now. Their plan is to have All the work done somewhere else and then ship in the wing and fuselage and put them together here and call it "American Made". The problem the company has is that the parts Mexico is making have to be reworked when they arrive here. That is needless rework. We were making the parts just fine here. The company is like every other manufacturing company out there...send it out of the country. We will be going the way of the auto makers. Look at their plant closings. Many thousands of workers out of work. Corporate greed is driving this country into a 2 class society. The white collar elite, and the servants.
Posted by: Machinist Supporter Location: Wichita on Aug 3, 2008 at 01:48 PM
We always hear about the union being greety but I guess some people just do not realize that all working people benefit from unions. We have a 40 hr work week time and a half for overtime safe places to work FMLA law and not to mention LABOR DAY all in federal law now because labor unions fought so hard to get justice for ALL workers not just UNION workers. So we all should be proud to have unions because the fact is we all benefit from them in some way or other. GO LOCAL 733 fight for not only your future but the AMERICAN WORKERS across this country!!!!
Posted by: UNION MEMBER Location: WICHITA on Aug 3, 2008 at 01:37 PM
to all those people who think aircraft workers are greedy,underworked,and over paid, come on out and take my shoes for one week in the heat with managers breathing down your throat to hurry up and get done.you wouldn't last out the day!!! and if we didnt have are jobs making are pay you wouldn't have a job either.but feel free to come out and put in your application just like we all did and you will see the truth,or shut up and go to work in your air condition work place and leave us the hell alone!!!!!!!
Posted by: Union Proud Location: Wichita on Aug 3, 2008 at 01:36 PM
Oh ok i'm looking at all these comments that say union this and union that. Well it makes me sick to see that these people that aren't union are crying over the fact us people that are union we striked. and you want to complain that the fact the union got us up to pay? well i don't know about you but i would hate to work for a big company and only get paid $7 to $8 an hour. the union came in and made it where we would get started out making $14 to $17 an hour so think again before you say you hate the union. another thing is that the Vice Presindets are getting paid, Managers are getting paid, CEO is getting paid what about us the workers who bust our butts in the heat? where is our pay?
Posted by: a union worker Location: east ict on Aug 3, 2008 at 01:33 PM
i work for hbc...i have never had my vacation cancel...if you let them when you had it planned and ok'd 9 months in advance you were a fool . i have been with the company 9 years and this past year i had a plane ticket boguth when they informed me shutdown was cancelled...i told my boss to get th epaper work ready ..i would not be in and to do whatever they had to do..guess what absolutely nothing happened and i did that with out the union..as far as the work load..go to the kansas labor board website and see what it tells you....it will open your eyes to what an emplyer can really make you work... all i can say is...you do have alife and it doesnt hurt your boss to here you say no... in the end..they know who does the work and who is really in control
Posted by: someone who has a set on Aug 3, 2008 at 01:19 PM
Oh boo hoo its hot in the hanger, oh boo hoo you have to work long hours. i work on a road construction crew not in aviation. currently on the kellogg project. i have built a number or highways and streets in the heat of the summer and the freezing cold of winter. try laying asphalt or running a jack hammer at 100 degrees. you are pathetic. Why don't you all grow a pair and get back to work. is that an aircraft company over there or a daycare?
Posted by: cessna Location: wichita on Aug 3, 2008 at 01:18 PM
I still don't think cessna employee's got a better contract considering at the time a 12 BILLION dollar backlog. I actually voted no to the contract and Yes to stike on cessna's contract. But strike on brothers maybe next contract cessna will pay what they owe with a now 16 BILLION dollar backlog in a little over a year. They always want to please to customer but what about the brothers and sisters who build the airplanes for the customers!
Posted by: Right Location: To Work on Aug 3, 2008 at 12:58 PM
I'm glad Kansas is a Right To Work state. Unions do nothing but greedily bleed a company dry so the union bosses can enrich themselves. I will NEVER join a union.
Posted by: Johnny Utah Location: Wichita on Aug 3, 2008 at 12:50 PM
So Rosie; I propose this question, are you more skilled than someone with an MBA? Is your job more important than mine? You work your skilled trade because you chose not to get an education. That's not my fault. This entire situation is your choice, just like it will be your choice when you get laid off and I am still working, providing for my family. My insurance doubled this past year...but that's fine because I know I still have it. I work sixty hours per week, I get paid for forty...but again that's ok, I have a job and I enjoy it. It's obvious none of you enjoy your skilled craft as you put it, but again that's not my fault you chose not to get an education. Oh, and by the way you forgot to mention the winter shut down sweetie. During the week of shutdown I worked. Have fun in the sun not getting paid, I'm sure your kids appreciate it ;-).
Posted by: hbc fly guy Location: east side on Aug 3, 2008 at 12:31 PM
i am sorry we dont work for free in aviation... i guess we should make 9 per hr..while hbc makes 15 mil per plane and hires 29 v.p's i would love to see jim schuster or george nygen have to buck a rivet in 110 degree heat all day ..George's so called office in the middle of plt 4 lasted 2 weeks.....the heat got to him and he retreated...
Posted by: tired Location: wich on Aug 3, 2008 at 12:24 PM
tell me something please , if you had your vacation scheduled 9 10 11 months in advance or a week end you were told you could have off and 1 day before, they (managers)TELL YOU THAT YOU HAVE TO BE THERE and so what for your plans , plane tickets ect... and there is absolutly nothing you can do about it JUST HOW THE HELL WOULD YOU FEEL it happens all the time now on 8 hour shifts then what under this supposedly great contract do any of you that have no right to speak ,it will happen even more under this contract because of unrestricted over time, that is a FACT POOR MANAGMENT DECISIONS cause this 95% of the time and we the workers (UNION OR NON UNION) are forced to fix. HBC until you fix this we are out ...we all want to get back to work and build the finest aircraft in the world but this is on you NOW... LETS NOT LET THIS GO ON ANOTHER 20 YEARS WE ARE ON STRIKE BECAUSE OF THE LAST 20 YEARS
Posted by: HBC Employee Location: HBC on Aug 3, 2008 at 12:11 PM
Hey Wes? Can you please provide proof of these bonuses?
Posted by: Disco Mike Location: Beech on Aug 3, 2008 at 12:11 PM
You know what's funny? Watching the ambulances line up as they have to haul you morons off to the ER from heat exhaustion. And for what? A better insurance rate? My insurance premium doubled this last year...WHO CARES? I still have it, and it's cheaper than what I can go buy it for; ten fold. Read the contract, present facts to these message boards. How many people actually cared enough to even come out and vote yesterday? I am willing to bet half, anyone care to take that bet? With this strike will come layoffs, and then we'll have to hear even more whining from you clowns. Have you seen the economy lately...not a real good time to strike wise guy. Oh, by the way go check on the price of COBRA while you're busy not making any money to support your family.
Posted by: union man made Location: paint shoip on Aug 3, 2008 at 12:01 PM
To those who dont work at HBC please flip the page none of us care about your dumb misinformed comments nor do we want to hear about your crazy concept of how this is going to affect you. bottom line go find another article that you can complain about that actually does affect you.
Posted by: Employee Location: HBC on Aug 3, 2008 at 11:56 AM
Wes, what is wrong with you? Where did you get this bonus information on Schuster? You are the major reason no one can honestly take us seriously. Please grow up and present facts.
Posted by: Stephanie Location: HBC Union Member on Aug 3, 2008 at 11:54 AM
I've read the newspaper. I've watched the news. If I believed everything I read or saw I'd be upset we voted to strike. The company DID give us a raise in this contract. GREAT! The company DID raise our pension! Awesome! They did address some of our concerns, just like they claimed they did! What you laymen people DIDN'T know is that we'll have people in the same departments getting different pay. They are being discriminated against because they're new hires. What you didn't read is that even though people are working 19 days in a row, the new contract says the company can make them work MORE without any time off. You guys aren't seeing that our sick days are being taken away from us. Every 30 days they can change our shifts without prior notice. ((You know how hard it is to find a babysitter for 2nd or 3rd shift?) We will get a new insurance option, but our raise wont cover it, especially by the 3rd yr. For the record, only two buildings are AC! They AREN'T the ones working 19 days!
Posted by: tired Location: wich on Aug 3, 2008 at 11:50 AM
for all that think weve got it made,you wouldnt make it past your probationary period, we have new hires in our building with 75 days or less in saying what have i done no days off for how long? for all of you that have no clue whats it like shut the ---- up. its not the money its the principle
Posted by: Dave W Location: Wichita on Aug 3, 2008 at 11:21 AM
Some of you are saying 'this strike only wants to make the company move their assembly operations to Mexico even more because you gripe and complain too much' Think about what you're saying. If all aircraft companies thought this way, Wichita will no longer be the aircraft capital of the world and will further plunge itself into further economic ruin. It's bad enough businesses are closing down left and right - and then when you put thousands more workers out of jobs, what will be become of the businesses that are left over? 'Made in the U.S.A' means quality and reliability. This will soon become a thing of the past and aircraft that will come out of Mexico built solely on slave labor wages will start falling out of the skies due to cheap craftsmanship. Bottom line is this: Treat your American workers decent - you will get decent product. End of story.
Posted by: Rosie Riveter Location: Plant 4 on Aug 3, 2008 at 11:19 AM
To Jonny Utah: We have slackers here just like at any place. If an MBA makes less than we do, he/she is under employed. A lot of salaried workers are "pink collar" workers like admin assistants. What we do is a skilled trade that takes years to be really good at. We work using ten thousandths of an inch tollerance. Do you? As for getting paid for shutdown. During the 4th of july shutdown, we get paid because we are REQUIRED to use our vacation time for it. What do you do that week?
Posted by: the 316 Location: east ict on Aug 3, 2008 at 11:17 AM
as fas as out sourcing ..you can thank NAFTa for that ....union brother go right ahead and walk into work..we will know who you are...you will have to work with us...go watch the movie the river and then decide....yes i will lose what money i did save..yes i did vote for the contrqct but i did vote i would stay beside and walk with my brothers and sisters.... oh by the watch scab....the next contract they will cut your wages and pay you with lunches and movie tickets...so jus go to lsi logic and work
Posted by: rj b84 Location: wichita on Aug 3, 2008 at 11:04 AM
Dougie Dougie Its clear that you don't know squat. I Spend twenty years in a uniform ,by the way it came with low pay, living payday to payday. But That was MY choice. All that time people in the military were looked down on.. Also worked a part-time job for ten years to make ends meet and make a better life for my family. Yea I'm happy and I will do what it takes to help get a better contract. (without hurtting the scabs feeling) Talk about dicators you need to work for some of the managers in plt 4 see if you like them riding you like a trick pony. By the way thanks so were much for all you support
Posted by: union member Location: wichita on Aug 3, 2008 at 10:48 AM
the only people who could really understand what is going on are other aircraft workers. and yes there are a lot of people who dont deserve the jobs they got, but there are just as many who do. we put up with the constint badgering of our managers, the heat,the cold, and wondering from day to day if our jobs will be outsourced. thats just a few things. wichita should know that it needs aircraft workers.we are not greedy!! all people see is what the company gave us, not what they took away!!! the raises wasnt that big of an issue. the insurence and overtime pay and hours are. many of us are forced to work by the company 10 to 12 hr shifts for 19 days straight.and those 2 days a month we get off we are so tired all we do is sleep. the insurence only went up $10 the first year in fact but it is open ended so we dont know how much it will be the 2 years after that.i feel bad for the new hireswho have to decide to cross the line or not, my choice was easy. STRIKE!!!!!!
Posted by: Doug Location: Derby on Aug 3, 2008 at 10:09 AM
I feel for to Group of People in this STRIKE the Brave worker who crosses the line because he needs the money and job. He looses his freedom of choice by his "FELLOW BROTHERS" because he chooses Job over greed. He will be verbaly abused because he made a choice for what HE thiks is right For HIS family. But since it is not in the View of the MON UNION he needs to be Punished. SOUNDS LIKE A COMIE DICTATOR SHIP TO ME. And the Non aircraft worker from the local bar maid to the bag boy who will lose money if not there jobs because of a Greedy Few. You want more money Quit the Union. How much more will that put in your pocket a pay check. MANY OTHER PEOPLE WORK HARDER AND IN WORSE WORKING CONTIONS THAN YOU UNION BOYS. Think Retail employees and Resturant Employees. Most of all think of a man or women in UNIFORM defending this right you are given. You Union people have it so EASY See what you caused. Hope you are Happy
Posted by: eastsider on Aug 3, 2008 at 10:07 AM
Hey -- Jason Ritter -- This is America! If you are upset that a Vice President is driving a Porsche, here's what you do. Work hard, get an education, prove yourself, don't do drugs or get one of those nice neck tattoos, become a Vice President, and earn enough money to buy yourself an even better Porsche! That will show him!
Posted by: Union Member Crossing on Aug 3, 2008 at 09:42 AM
Maybe this will give HBC some time to think who they want back. Its time to start weeding out those positions that may not be so important. If the position that you once held can get done without you there then you are not needed. Keep on walking!
Posted by: you wake up on Aug 3, 2008 at 09:21 AM
So, Miss "Wake Up", Does that mean that you don't want to benefit from the improvements that the union gets? That would be stupid.
Posted by: 88 Location: SALINA on Aug 3, 2008 at 09:07 AM
I was a Union member for 15 years. Unless you're one of the Union's "favorites" at least up here in Salina, and you know who you are, they couldn't care less about you or your family. 2 years ago I got out of the Union and to this day, not one Union representative has even bothered to to ask why I wanted out, what they could do to keep me as a member, or to even rejoin before the contract. 2 years ago the Union stabbed me and my family in the back. It's going to feel sooooo goooood to return the favor on Monday morning. I just feel you guys are going to be begging for what you just turned down before this is over.
Posted by: wes Location: plant 4 on Aug 3, 2008 at 08:54 AM
The union proposed insurance that would save the co. $11 mil. and give us cheaper and better ins. That is not greed on union part but a good plan. Our CEO recently made a BONUS one year of $19 mil and then $11 mil this year(while cutting jobs and sending our jobs to Mex. Our jobs will go to Mex no matter how much we get paid and no matter what the economy is. Does that mean we should lay down and take anything? You critics keep hearing it over and over. It's not about the money. Most of you people can plan several wks in adv to do something on a wkend but for us we can plan to be told on Fri that you have to work the wkend. I have missed out on several family functions. I enjoy what i do. Why should I have to quit as several of you advocate and find a diff job when we are fighting for things that can EASILY be fixed with this contract?
Posted by: F Location: Wichita on Aug 3, 2008 at 08:46 AM
I would like someone to enlighten me. Tell me how your contract is unfair in compariosn with the other manufacturers in town. Be specific please, we all would like to know what you are fighting for because from where I am standing this looks like a pretty good contract in comparison with Cessna, who I think you have forgotten has Textron backing it and puts out twice the amount of planes you do. Make me believe what you believe.
Posted by: Johnny Utah Location: Wichita on Aug 3, 2008 at 08:17 AM
I spoke with a gentleman last week who is getting paid 23.00 per hour. I asked him what he does and he told me , "I pretty much stand around or find a place I can go where my supervisor or lead won't find me." That pretty much sums it up for me. Nobody feels sorry for you. Most of the people striking do not have a professional education yet are getting paid nearly the same rate as someone with an MBA. Over half of them are getting paid more than salaried workers. This isn't the 40's, there aren't unsafe work conditions out there. They get paid ridiculous amounts for working overtime and weekends. They have plant shutdowns where they receive in addition to their vacation paid time off. Just go work somewhere else if it's "that bad". No one cares. The longer you strike the more of your jobs head to Mexico.
Posted by: Blood and Sweat Location: plant 1 on Aug 3, 2008 at 08:08 AM
HBC drew a line last contract and they kept crossing it. How many times did they write something down then turn around and say thats not what it means. This time we are drawing the line, and HBC not going to cross it. Most of us where not thier, but for some of the older folks in this country, ask them what the work place was with out unions.Ask Walmart employies. I hope the get there union, I dont work there but I back them. Lets talk money. MMM what good is it if you cant enjoy it. I pay for a home and I am never thier. I also have the cable bundle, but I am at work or sleeping. the ovetime sucks. I have a wife and kids I keep forgeting what they look like. We have drawn the line and my brothers and sisters will not let HBC cross it. STIKE TILL ITS RIGHT
Posted by: Wake Up on Aug 3, 2008 at 08:07 AM
So what 90% of the aircraft workers that are UNION voted to strike!!!!! That doesn't mean everyone that works there feels the same way!!!! Not everyone that works at HBC is stupid enough to be in the UNION!!!! So stop saying you speak for all of them!!! Because YOU DON'T!!!!! The majority of people that work in aircraft are not in the UNION!!!!
Posted by: I'm Alive and Thankful Location: Wichita on Aug 3, 2008 at 07:34 AM
I hate my job and I have crappy benefits and I don't see my kids either because I work all the time, but I'm thankful I have a job because so many don't and I'm not going to strike and cry because I don't make enough, if you dislike your job so much then find another one because I guarantee someone out there would love to have your job, and when you're on strike and you can't pay your bills or buy food, don't cry to anyone else but yourselves, you'll be the first ones at the food bank and at the srs wanting help. You'll be the first ones in the news crying I can't pay my bills, I can't take care of my kids, I can't buy groceries and wanting the rest of us to feel sorry for you, So get a life, deal with what you've got, and be miserable like everyone else and be thankful you're alive because I tell you what so many would love to be in your place, have your job and pay and they wouldn't be crying. Grow Up!!!
Posted by: proud to be union Location: wichita on Aug 3, 2008 at 07:09 AM
Here is a message to the company... If you're so poor then quit hiring managers and hire some people to make some damn planes! In my building on my shift alone there is 4 managers for about 45 people and each one of those managers is pure overhead cost (they add no value to the company). Lets say each one makes 75,000 per year that is 300,000. I have a solution... FIRE THEM ALL!!!! and simply replace them with a cpable manager and pay that person 75k a year! There you go i just saved the company 225k for one small department and one shift! Your welcome HBC! Now you dont have to ask us to clean up your mess! Lets see how the managers like it when they have to put in the sweat. STRIKE STRIKE STRIKE!!!
Posted by: hbc employee Location: wichita on Aug 3, 2008 at 06:49 AM
I must say i am a union member and i voted to accept the contract,dont get me wrong i do not believe this is a "good contract" but with the economy the way it is we should be thankful for what we have. I am also wondering how many of the 90% are willing to ride this thing out until the end. Remember if there is a sufficent amount of people crossing the line that will be a one way ticket to the worst contract in history. With that being said i did not vote to accept the contract but i will stand tall with all my IAM brothers and sisters and I WILL BE ON STRIKE! To everyone thinking of crossing the line just be strong. ONE MORE DAY!
Posted by: need 2 work Location: wichita on Aug 3, 2008 at 06:12 AM
Well, I am not union and will be crossing the picket line. I have a large family to support. Not that I do not condone what the union is fighting for, I can not afford to miss even 1 week's check. I may be a "scab" to union members but I would rather cross the line not being union than cross being union as I would still have to cross regardless.
Posted by: a little miffed Location: wichita on Aug 3, 2008 at 04:47 AM
What matters most? Family. Because of mandatory overtime, I've missed my kids growing up and I credit my divorce mainly on being gone at work all the time. But no-o-o-o-o-o, I'm a lazy, greedy aircraft worker with a cushy job in the factory who doesn't deserve a decent contract!
Posted by: 30 yr union member Location: Wichita on Aug 3, 2008 at 04:31 AM
When I hired on at Beech 30 yrs. ago it was because they had good benefits, good pay and a cola. In the last few contracts I've watched all the benefits, cola and pay slowly dissapear. At the current trend, being employed at "Hawker Beechcraft" is becoming less and less desirable. Working 7- 10's in a hot, sweaty factory isn't as glamorous as it seems.
Posted by: Anonymous Location: wichita on Aug 3, 2008 at 01:34 AM
if you hate your job so much, then QUIT! unions are stupid. all they do is create a mob mentality and drag hbc and the economy down. this is absolutely stupid. if i were hbc management, i'd fire all of you and hire people who WANT to work.
Posted by: james Location: wichita on Aug 3, 2008 at 01:22 AM
Hey happy to have a job.If my job goes to Mexico it wont be because I'm on strike they want to move it anyway.If it does at least I can look my kid in the eye and tell him I went down fighting.Every time one of our jobs go south two of you go down.HBC is pure evil one week on the job will tell you that.Think about 90% voted to strike that will tell you whats going on out there.It would be hard to get 90% of people to agree that the sky is blue.We will strike,we will win and all of our children will be better off for it.ONE DAY LONGER!!!!
Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 3, 2008 at 12:53 AM
I'd also like to point out a very important reason I chose to strike. My manager told me he was going to give me a merit raise because I had far more planes under budget on my job than anywhere else in the department. I didn't get it for a month, and I asked him about it. Turns out he lied to my face about it and was never going to give it to me, but tried to trick me into thinking my mandatory raises were the merit raise. This is just how things are commonly done at this company. I don't appreciate being treated like less than human, and I will not be at work on Monday.
Posted by: thunderclap Location: wichita ks on Aug 3, 2008 at 12:49 AM
To K and Just a Thought: This isn't about how we will pay our mortgage or school supplies for our kids. That is none of your concern anyway. This is about standing up for what's right. You obviously would prefer to live on your knees than to die on your feet. To Y: You can't exactly go from your Mcdonalds job to working on aircraft. We started from the bottom and worked our way up and earned our wages. So don't whine and winge about how grateful we should be of our paychecks. Again, it's not about wages. It's about fair and decent treatment. STRIKE!!!!
Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 3, 2008 at 12:41 AM
rd- how can we mind our own business when we will be the ones hearing you all complain if this thing goes on like Yorks strike did a few years back we will hear you complain about getting very little strike pay and how far behind your bills got while you were out and how you couldn't do this or that because of the strike... Not everyone has a savings built up.
Posted by: HBC employee Plant 1 Location: El Dorado on Aug 3, 2008 at 12:38 AM
The funny thing is where are all these haters at work. I don't here anyone saying these things. But then they come on here anonymous saying how the ninety percent who voted to strike are greedy and don't want to work. Truth is these are the runts of the litter who don't have the courage to speak out in public. People who live beyond their means and were too greedy to save up money to strike. You call us greedy but you scab rats want to work while we fight to keep our pay, benefits, and conditions desirable.
Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 3, 2008 at 12:35 AM
sick to my stomach- you said thanks for the support to the cessna worker or hater well have you ever worked a job where you have crapy pay and crapy benefits? if so then you should be thankful for what you are getting especially when there is sooo much out sourcing and american companies moving overseas and we seen people on TV saying how cessnans got a better deal well then why don't the complainers go to cessna instead of complaining on TV and saying they want a deal like cessna got. I think that is some peoples problems-people saying cessna got a good deal we should to and i say if you want what they got them GO there quit whinning and go there DUHHHHHHHH
Posted by: A real Beechcrafter Location: Everywhere on the square mile on Aug 3, 2008 at 12:29 AM
On the Related Links on this page above Post Your Comments, Click open the Hawker Beechcraft Employee Info. It takes you to http://www.hawkerbeechcraft.com/2008_negotations page. Click open the 2008 Proposed Settlement Agreement. It is the entire contract proposal with each and every acticle, word for word of the contract that was voted down, and that the Union thought was worth telling the member to strike for. You can also go to http://www.ll733iam.com/ and read all of the Union information. After you all read everything that everyone was told, then you can give educated arguments on this whole thing. For myself, I still can beleive that anyone truly believes they are going to gain anything by going on strike. I have been through many contracts and after everyone of them all you hear is that they should have taken the 1st one. For all the years and contracts that I have been been involved with, this is the 1st time the company has ever offered this much.
Posted by: k on Aug 3, 2008 at 12:25 AM
Eric you are right and sorry for the mixup and you know i am GLAD you did all that but how many other people did and how many of those people can truly AFFORD to strike how many of them are going to get behind or complain abou their bills and want people to feel sorry for them when they run out of money and can't pay their bills. That is good that you say you will take a low paying job if need be. I have to agree with the one that wrote "you all are lucky to even have a job just a year ago the same company that bought boeing and laid so many off bought Raytheon" what are union members going to do if they do that to you after the strike, (complain because they got laid off because the company chose to cut jobs to pay more and give more benefits)HUMMMMMMMMM
Posted by: 30 yr plus employee Location: Wichita on Aug 3, 2008 at 12:08 AM
Please go to http://hawkerbeechcraft.com/2008_negotiations & click open the 2008 Proposed Settlement Agreements- All Articles. This is the contract proposed in full with each & every article of the contract. Read & re-read until you understand it. It is not just the bits & pieces that base your vote on. Look at the $9.48 increase for insurance-then look at the increase coverage. It far exceeds that $9.48. Why is the company trying to develop alternate work weeks to eliminate overtime, if they are planning to force you to work, & if they can not eliminate it, you can only be required for 2 week-ends in a row. You all claim to be to smart to buy into the lies, so stop letting everyone tell you what you voted on, and take the time to read everything there is for yourself. Then go to http://www.ll733iam.com/ Does it tell you that the COBRA insurance they got for you is going to cost you $1137. for a family. Get Educated be as smart as you claim, & dig until you know exactly what is what.
Posted by: Maria Location: Wichita on Aug 3, 2008 at 12:00 AM
i just don't understand you people you say it is not about the money well then what is it what you pay to much for insurance what 70.00 80.00 a month WOW try 69.00 a week. do you think your strike is going to stop them from sending your jobs to mexico where they can pay someone 2.00 or 3.00 an hour and give them crap for benefit, you are giving them a REASON to send your jobs away. It is UNION greed running these companies out of America i mean come on people quit living beyond your means and be thankful you have a job and food and a house
Posted by: megan Location: Topeka on Aug 2, 2008 at 11:59 PM
My Oldest Brother Works at BeechCraft, and I stand Beside Him 100%..Weither Its right or wrong...Everytime I talk to him, He is working Mandatory OT and almost never gets to be home, and He has a baby to help raise...Our Mother Was in the Hospital and Dieing and He still only got one day off...How unfair can They be....I believe Everyone should fight for what they believe, and Im proud of All the HBC employees that are doing just that!! Its way to hott and long to be doing what they do everyday for long work periods, They need breaks just like everyone else... I am Proud of my Brother and His Co workers...
Posted by: hbc UNION WORKER Location: andover on Aug 2, 2008 at 11:50 PM
Bash and bad mouth the aircraft/union workers all you want in my opinion-because it will never change my feelings one bit. This company wants to attack and take away from the future employees who will come into this plant, and one of those people may very well be one of my very own flesh and blood. And it will be a cold day in you-know-where before I put a 4% pay increase above any one of my children. The money is not the key issue by any means whatsoever. Overtime Protection, Earned Time Off, Insurance, and Pension are the biggest things we are fighting for. I have what I have today because of the brothers and sisters that fought, and in some cases died, before me and I am repaying them by continuing that very same fight they first took on themselves. Standing Union Proud One Day Longer!!!
Posted by: Anonymous Location: wichita on Aug 2, 2008 at 11:46 PM
SICK to my stomach that is just it i am a cessna WORKER not a union member. I appreciate my job and thank god for my job because i know our economy SUCKS right now and i am lucky to EVEN have a job and you don't hear me complaining because i have to pay a low premium for insurance when at my last job non aircraft I paid HIGH premiums and had a high deductible and was barely getting by i couldn't even live paycheck to paycheck.(and that place had a union)and i worked much harder for WAY less pay. I don't understand I know the union is one of the reason you get the money you do and I will give them that but if union members keep pushing they are going to make these companies make decisions that the union members will regret by sending your jobs to Mexico that is what they did to me at Raytheon so i just don't understand why you keep wanting MORE!!!!! why so the company will send your job somewhere else where they don't have to pay so much...
Posted by: Angel Location: Wichita on Aug 2, 2008 at 11:30 PM
I'm the wife of union member and I am proud they are going on strike to get a better contract. HBC's contract says that they can change any workers schedule with 28 days notice. ONLY those working five 8 hour days are will get 2 days off after 19 days of work. HBC wants to change everyone's work schedule to four 10 hour days or three 12 hour days per week. In HBC's contract they do not have ever give anyone on four 10 hour days or three 12 hour days a day off for as long as they want. Workers can be required to work 3 years straight without a day off until the next contract comes up. I want my husband to be able to spend some time with us, his family.
Posted by: Glad to get a paycheck on Aug 2, 2008 at 11:14 PM
how am i psycho i am not the one turning down a contract and wanting more because i live beyond my means. I am the one who is happy to have a job and getting a paycheck not a PICKET check. and you are still AVOIDING the question why does Cessna have a bigger backlog and expanding their buildings? why did cessna and textron?
Posted by: wes Location: plant 4 on Aug 2, 2008 at 11:13 PM
I have worked the hard,filthy,crappy jobs before. Do you Cessna workers not remember storming the negotiation site last contract. We aircraft workers need to stand as one. As far as you others, all the aircraft companies have been looking for capable workers so if you think our job is so easy then go apply. Our building are not climate controlled. There are sometimes the metal is so hot it burns to set on top the aircraft(those are the buildings without the ovens). You have sweat dripping off you just standing there. As far as being outside picketing; I welcome the fresh air outside of the stagnet,hot, polluted building. FOR ALL YOU ANONYMOUS AND NO NAMES, GET SOME NADS AND PUT YOU NAME!!!!
Posted by: Katlin Location: Wellington on Aug 2, 2008 at 11:09 PM
Jason why are you defending your aircraft when it is your contract offer and decision to strike that is the issue not who builds better planes Cessna and textron rewarded their people fairly for building quality aircraft
Posted by: Laurie Location: salina on Aug 2, 2008 at 11:09 PM
I am sort of a new hire, grateful 4 my job, but I am a single mom with kids. Yes, I need my wages and insurance but if it is going to cost me over $2,000 by the end of the year out of my pocket, that is no deal. Wage increase 4%, ok, but with the increase in the health insurance cost we are at -2% at least. Our wage increase really is null & void. We need a better contract! Our families are what we arre really looking out for, not really the money. We constantly would have a parts shortage and be on loan, if they really cared they would keep our parts in stck.
Posted by: rd Location: Salina on Aug 2, 2008 at 11:06 PM
If you don't like what we are doing then just mind your own business! ONE MORE DAY!!!!
Posted by: hbcwrkr on Aug 2, 2008 at 10:58 PM
It was a fair deal!!!! The union is shooting us as employees in the foot. Also, now that you're going to strike, now comes mob mentality, as you created hostile working conditions before the vote. The flyer that was circulated by the union, regarding people crossing the line, and being ugly toward them. You are taking the right for others to choose to work. You said don't fear or cringe because of Shuster, but what you're really saying is fear because of the union. What freedom, what respect, HIPOCRITES!!!!
Posted by: Kathy Location: Plant 4 on Aug 2, 2008 at 10:58 PM
yes, I am a proud Union worker. Yes, I did vote to STRIKE! Yes, I will join my Union brothers & sisters at the picket line. We work 10 hour days, sometimes up to 19 days straight. NO, we (Plant 4), do NOT have a climate controlled building. For the past year the upper management has been telling us "We (Hawker Beechcraft) want to be the Employer of Choice. Well, I say, Hawker Beechcraft it's time to put up or shut up. The employer of choice DOES NOT have the LOWEST pay scale & the WORST benefits.
Posted by: HAPPY to have my job Location: wichita on Aug 2, 2008 at 10:39 PM
James you say you are not fighting for the money you are not diggin holes your fighting for your job because they want to send the whole king air line to mexico do you really think by striking it is going to stop them i mean come on we already found out they have things in the making to move the plant this just gives them an even better reason to do so they can move the plant and pay people in mexico 2.00 an hour and give them NO benefits and save MILLIONS, right now the way i see it you all are wanting them to pay you more money and give you better benefits than what you already have therefore cost them more money and leave all of you without jobs then what are you gonna do complain because you can't pay your bills. please you all should have taken the deal
Posted by: wes Location: andover on Aug 2, 2008 at 10:36 PM
I am a HBC employee of almost eleven yrs. I have defended this company for most of those years. I am afraid that you are getting the wrong story from this company. They are playing the victim. The truth is they have lied to the employees and the city. People look back and think the employees are greedy but it is not about the money for us; it is about respect and fairness. They mis-manage and then rely on us to bail them out. On my line most of us worked 2wkends on with one off at 10hr days for 6-9mo. Now we are looking at doing it again just to bail them out. They try to put the pressure on us for the loans they have out and the interest but that is all a smoke screen. We live with the constant fear of our jobs being shipped to Mexico. We do make a good living and I am thankful but my life is not HBC. I know I am rambling but my point is dig deeper in your stories and don't believe all you hear.
Posted by: P4 Union worker on Aug 2, 2008 at 10:33 PM
One of the sayings on the line, all the time is....we've done ALOT worse work for ALOT less pay. Now we have a position to fight for what we want/believe. We will stay out ONE DAY LONGER!!!! Than the management can stand. When we go back to work we'll ALL be fixing the screw-ups left behind by the SCABS that crossed the line. They cant even get a correct and complete blueprint to do a job at HBC. You think they'll be able to build a plane using 40 year old BPs with substitute workers???? Good luck, they wont. We have the knowledge to know how business is run, and we know how these planes go together. WE are what WE are fighting for. The rest of you people who dont have a clue about what goes on out there are irrelevant to us. You are the people who come to work at HBC and quit after 2 weeks because its TOO HARD, TOO HOT, TOO LONG. WAY TO STAND TOGETHER BROTHERS!!! I cant wait to see you on the picket line. I just hope some of these message writers will show up and say this in person
Posted by: Tina Location: plant 4 on Aug 2, 2008 at 10:31 PM
ONE DAY LONGER!
Posted by: Tina on Aug 2, 2008 at 10:23 PM
A day at Hawker....higher than 100 degrees and management walking around (mostly sitting) with a mad dog look on their face and never any appreciation. Why don't you come in for a tour in mid July or August? I guarantee you will leave within 10 minutes and some of us have to work 19 days straight in it. I feel so badly for the older folks and THEY deserve a livable pension. We ruin our bodies and our spirits in this place and if you haven't worked in this "sweat shop" you can't talk. Yeah, we make descent money but not the millions that the CEO's put in their pockets while sitting in their AC's and no money will give back the time away from our children. We can't "live" now when on required overtime so give us a descent retirement. We are not whining (and if we are so what, who are you to say??) we are asking for what we deserve.
Posted by: Jonathon (Hawker Employee 3 months) Location: Wichita on Aug 2, 2008 at 10:20 PM
You people call us greedy? Its not about money. Trust me its not as great here as you people make it out to be. Two years ago I pushed carts at Walmart for 6.25 an hour so I know what its like to be working hard for nothing. We know that Hawker is a good job, thats why we are fighting, to keep it a good job. I spent two years at york with crap insurance and small pay. If we don't fight to protect our rights hawkers will keep taking away until its just like york, lots of hard work no pay/benefits. That contract was an insult to us as human beings, I'll gladly starve on the picket line before I admit hawker was right in offering us that garbage. STRIKE! STRIKE! STRIKE! How long? ONE DAY LONGER! They think they have an attendance problem now? Wait till Monday!
Posted by: Eric McPherson on Aug 2, 2008 at 10:20 PM
Hey K! Next time you call ME out on something at least know what you're replying to. Jason said we make better planes then Cessna, not me. I said most of you people crying about what we do dont have a job, or are jealous that we have the jobs you want. Its ok, keep the hate going, I saved my overtime, I saved my extra money, I paid off all my credit cards within the last year. So any of those things people say we wont be able to pay for are irrelevant. I'm taking a lower paying temp job, but ONLY if I have to, or get too bored. I'll take up another job one of your lazy non-aircraft people think you're too good for while waiting on a better contract. The same thing I tell people at HBC when they're telling me how great Cessna is. "If it was so great, Why did you fudge it up when you were there?" They all have some wild excuse, but they chose to come to HBC. They like it so much better then go back. This is about workers vs management. And yes, I know what the insurance means.
Posted by: HBC Union Worker Location: Plant One on Aug 2, 2008 at 10:13 PM
First of all to all the srike haters, you only wish you had a format to tell your company that you have had enough of its BS! Secondly I feel very proud to be part of something bigger than myself. We are union brothers and sisters of all colors and races united for a common goal. This is about more than 4% wage increases(buy out)its about family and new hires. To vote yes I would draw a line between me and future HBC workers and give the company rulership of my weeks and weekends. To all of you that get treated unfairly at work and like to spew your venom on blogs just remember we can fight and are fighting and will keep fighting.
Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 2, 2008 at 10:13 PM
Anonymous now why can't the ones who voted to strike see things the way you do, instead of being GREEDY they need to be thankful for the job and benefits they do have.
Posted by: rj B-84 Location: wichita on Aug 2, 2008 at 10:11 PM
Its really nice to see the lack of support from the community. HBC employees help support the community so instead of making crappy comments about the strike, why don't you show the strikers some support for a change.
Posted by: sick to my stomache Location: the world on Aug 2, 2008 at 10:10 PM
thanks for all your support cessna worker or hater whaterver you may be
Posted by: glad to be getting a paycheck Location: wichita on Aug 2, 2008 at 10:09 PM
there jason is that better i will get a paycheck not a strike paycheck
Posted by: jason ritter Location: p 4 on Aug 2, 2008 at 10:05 PM
or should we call you k or psycho?
Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 2, 2008 at 10:05 PM
JASON LIKE I SAID IF YOU DO BUILD BETTER PLANES THEN WHY DOES CESSNA HAVE A BIGGER BACKLOG AND IT JUST KEEPS GETTING BIGGER? AND WHY IS CESSNA'S PLANT GROWING?
Posted by: what are you whining about on Aug 2, 2008 at 09:58 PM
You people seem to forget a year ago you were all in danger of losing your jobs. The same people that bought Boeing and laid all those people off bought Raytheon. They could of sent you all packing. But they didn't. You should be grateful you still have jobs. Nobody is ever going to get a contract they're completely satisfied with. You take the good with the bad. And I have read both the "propaganda" and the actual HBC offer and there is nothing that bad there. You can't have everything. YOU GET WHAT YOU GET AND YOU DON'T THROW A FIT!!!!
Posted by: jason ritter Location: p 4 on Aug 2, 2008 at 09:57 PM
dear anonymous..... we do build better planes.....put your name up here, or but out
Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 2, 2008 at 09:55 PM
TO KEN WHY WOULD I WANT TO GO TO HAWKERBEECH WHEN I WAS THERE WHEN IT WA RAYTHEON AND WOULD NEVER EVER EVER GO BACK I NOW WORK AT CESSNA AND AM GLAD TO HAVE MY JOB, I AM NOT IN THE UNION AND NEVER WOULD BE. I AM THANKFUL TO HAVE A GOOD PAYING JOB AT CESSNA.
Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 2, 2008 at 09:50 PM<