Hawker Beechcraft Strike: Day Four
Hawker Beechcraft Strike: Day Four Save Email Print
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The strike at Hawker Beechcraft plants in Wichita and Salina ends its fourth day with no changes.

There has been no word on new negotiations or any statements from the company.

As the strike ends its first work week on Friday, it brings the last company paycheck for striking machinists. Those on the picket lines will get $150 per week in strike pay, beginning the third week of the strike.
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Posted by: Annonymous on Aug 19, 2008 at 11:31 AM
Has anyone heard of crossing strikers getting fired for absenteeism? I heard 10 were fired after staying out one week, and since they crossed, the union cannot/will not help them.
Posted by: Robert on Aug 19, 2008 at 06:11 AM
I think the union members are lazy and idiots. Give me a break, if you want a higher paying job go get one. You are deminstrating you selfishness by putting your families at risk. You intimidate others to follow your will. Who made you king. Maybee some of us do not wnat to follow your stupid example. If some one tried to force you to do somthing against your will you would be upset. But you do not care, you make threats to others about causing damage to their cars, or when the strike is over you will make it very hard for them. You strikers make me sick. I thinks all of you should be fired and the company should get some one else who wants to work. I think you Hypocrite, communist should, get out of the our country and go live wheere they inforce some ones will on you for a change. Move some where else and make our citys cleaner and better to lilve in, away from your threats and imposed control.
Posted by: Striker Location: Rose Hill on Aug 16, 2008 at 11:25 AM
How many planes have scabs and salary workers put out in two weeks? Answer:zero. The three that went out were ninety percent complete when we walked.Tick,tick,tick
Posted by: Think it's funny on Aug 16, 2008 at 08:17 AM
So the FAA finally stepped in on HBC. Shut down the 4000 line. I'm just not sure why cuz I thought by listening to some of these blogs that the worker aren't skilled or worth anything. Guess you people putting the strikers down were wrong! HBC now has 2 lines they can't work on until the "skilled" workers come back. Good job FAA! Keep on 'em, watch 'em like a hawk.
Posted by: My Location: Is Your Location on Aug 15, 2008 at 02:33 AM
come on people why you are so wound up, relax, take a deep breath, now go do something with your kids, you might have to go back to work soon. take this opportunity to do all you can b/c once you r back you will work work and work. don't take everything so serious. this site? this is for bored workers on strike after a long day playing with their kids. enjoy and blow your saving. this is why you saved. Did you? the saving bonds. Those are for your kids, hello happy meal, hello all star sport, ocean of fun, Tahiti!Great wall of China.. the list goes on.
Posted by: correction Location: union negative on Aug 15, 2008 at 02:10 AM
I like to say on behalf of defending people who writting "oppose union comments." don't get me wrong the Union is a good working concept, but all that good images are stank by some of its member rotten behaviors. some time is not just "one bad apples," it's a farmful of them,"where there is bugs so is exterminator I, II, III, not to mention The Chronical."
Posted by: work wichita Location: live in Wichita, where else? on Aug 15, 2008 at 01:47 AM
I personally think Union is good but with some draw back, what with the name calling. threat making, specially toward minority. take vietnamese for instance, why tell them to go back to where they came from. i would expect that from a 6 yr old kid. all minority holding aircraft position are skillful people, they are the best machinist for hired. Isn't that what iam made of."stand for something" that's something is hate crime. Thanks but no thanks, i rather "fall for anything" but that. PS."I was a member."
Posted by: Judgement Call Location: USC on Aug 15, 2008 at 01:13 AM
Hi i have been crossing the picket line since day one.(i have needs). i admired young people showing their opinion and believe and fighting for thier children future. But some of the oldtimers are the crazy one, out there thinking they still in the labor right movement,yelling racial slur, threats, they need to snap out of it and realize they might out-lived their cats and dogs.
Posted by: the unfortunate fly Location: hbc OT worker HOF on Aug 15, 2008 at 12:49 AM
I lost count of time work in here, it't now HBc, small c for small company. Yes we buit Airplane, yes high quality airplane.but when was the last time you ever flown in one of our airplane so who care right? wrong, before you fight you need to know your battle. i have very little time left with the company before i'm going down town for that last limo ride so i urge you people who holding the signs, lay down your weapons and come home to work. HBc is our home i spent more time here than my real home ask my wife's mailman if don't believe. i count on you young guns to follow my path let build this company until it become the big Company(notice C) then strike then you might get some out of it. Your fellow worker 2nd class senior.OT HOF Honorable Mentioned. PS.by the time you read this i just racked another 2 hrs of OT.
Posted by: the little people Location: with loud voices on Aug 15, 2008 at 12:15 AM
we been at it for about 2 weeks now, no result. let accept the contract-ion and come back out to hbc to work, there are many ways that we can get back at the company, not that we highly skill people haven't tried. give good example, sleeping on the job, smoke break, lunch box discount, waste perfectly good stuff, com'on scooter fill me in on this, quickies or hours in the bathroom need me say more, webeen riding this rollercoaster for quite sometime, let get back on it, let be honest to ourseves. WE ALL ARE OVER PAID FOR OUR HIGHLY SCAM UH SKILL.
Posted by: the non-member Location: at home, bored on Aug 14, 2008 at 11:57 PM
forgive us for writting ignorant comments. we are bored out of our mind, i nerver say that i miss working til now,been honored you guys for 2weeks, really, seriously and eagerly thinking about crossing that pickpocketline, hope you don't f with my lexus, ofcourse you can look but don't touch, kiss my hindnie i'll let one of you girl holding the sign sit in my ac passeger seat for 10 sec to cool off.
Posted by: the Asian crews Location: right here to stay sharing your pie of pie on Aug 14, 2008 at 10:11 PM
Listen! all of your non- asian- don't hate us. not like we like crossing the line to work. We all have people at home to feed, for us Asian we also have people back home to feed. piece"Love Thy neighbor
Posted by: HBCEMPLOYEE Location: ICT on Aug 13, 2008 at 10:27 PM
About the Union being rolemodel people and not degrading people: Day one of the strike, a friend of mine who just got hired, and happens to be Vietnamese, goes in on the 1st day of the strike Monday, and his car is surrounded (over by plant 4) and people are yelling at him to go back to his country and all kinds of other racial slurs and obscenities. He told me after work that day, that he had never felt so threatened of his personal safety in any other incident of his life. The following tuesday, I crossed the line. I just got hitred too, and was honoring the strike, until I heard what some ofthe rednecks outside did, I don't care for any of that stupidity.
Posted by: USA Location: ICT on Aug 13, 2008 at 06:44 PM
Pictures? There are pictures?
Posted by: ... Location: wichita on Aug 13, 2008 at 05:03 PM
what is the website the pictures are on? you know the ones you take when the employees enter in the mornings?
Posted by: BBOY Location: Wichita on Aug 13, 2008 at 12:32 PM
union proud: you better check yourself before you wreck yourself
Posted by: Insider Location: Wichita on Aug 13, 2008 at 11:49 AM
Everytime a striker screams an angel loses it's wings...
Posted by: Union Proud Location: Wichita on Aug 13, 2008 at 02:27 AM
The picket lines have been peacefull. Quit lieing about what is happening. No one is doing anything obsene on the picket lines. The people on those lines are families fighting for what they deserve. Hawker Beech management is not being truthfull in the contract offered. The workers had no choice but to strike. Shame on anyone that would cross a picket line. We are the ones that fight for better wages and benefits and there is a trickle down that effects everyone whether they realize that or not. Anyone that would cross a picket line needs to check themselves. Aircraft workers are highly skilled and should be paid well for those skills we are building aircraft after all. I am sure that when you fly you want to feel safe. So come on Wichita support the Union. It is truly unbelievable to me that anyone could cross a picket line and still live with themselves.
Posted by: Christian Employee on Aug 12, 2008 at 10:01 PM
WWJD with all of you?? Shame Shame .. don't yell at people. It's not like the "scab" stole your wife and your dog. The company is doing what its doing to survive, and you are getting nice farmer tans.
Posted by: ICT Location: Wichita on Aug 11, 2008 at 06:25 AM
I beleive Barb is not part of the hourly production union group. Salary/non-exempt people do not benefit from your strike. There's no shame in my game, but when the cattle guards on my truck strike you .... it's your own dam fault for dancing too close to my truck.
Posted by: HBC STRIKER Location: Wichita on Aug 10, 2008 at 07:59 PM
To ICT.. I have been very enthusiastic on the picket line and so are most others. Even people from Lear and Cessna and Boeing have been coming to join us. I am loving my new tan and building up my arm muscles holding signs and my leg muscles dancing and walking around. Yelling shame on you over a car stereo to someone who has the look of shame on their face trying to enter the gate is not a bad thing. People who cross will get to enjoy what WE get them with our sacrifices, and that makes people a bit angry. All I have seen in the picket line (and I have been there everyday) is people with passion stronger than you can even comprehend, all working together towards a goal. Leave us alone!!! Your negativity is not wanted here. SEE EVERYONE MONDAY AM BRIGHT AND EARLY ON THE PICKET LINE!!!
Posted by: ICT Location: Wichita on Aug 10, 2008 at 01:27 PM
I have heard about the comments being made to women employees crossing the line, and you strikers ought to be ashamed of yourselves. Since when did the "seasoned" hourly work force give a crap about the new hires. From what I have heard, they do not like training new hires. If you are so into doing what's best, walk the line 24/7 with enthusiam and belief. Don't wait for a car to pull up & then jump up to "strike". Give me a break, the lack of support out on the strike line shows the laziness of the workforce in the plants before the strike. There would be less backlog if you did your job, & didn't worry about someone doing something that you felt would take your job away (mgr helping crew). Unions are for weak people, and yelling at women is proof positive that you have no balls!!!
Posted by: info for non union strikers Location: Wichita on Aug 9, 2008 at 02:50 PM
I discovered you can still join the union and get the $150 they pay if you are non union and want to honor the strike. Better than nothing, and you get to stand for what is right.
Posted by: Sam Location: Wichita on Aug 9, 2008 at 01:11 PM
You think people that work at Walmart need food stamps? I'm pretty sure they pay as much as Target, Dillions and Walgreen's. So thats a lot of people that need food stamps.
Posted by: HBC STRIKER Location: Wichita on Aug 9, 2008 at 12:54 PM
Thank you Rosie:) Very well said.
Posted by: Rosie Location: Wichita on Aug 9, 2008 at 12:02 PM
I'm gonna make it real simple for some of ya! 90% rejected the contract offer and 89% gave the affirmation to strike. If the contract offer had been HALF WAY DECENT....you wouldn't have seen that kind of solidarity insofar as the vote on the contract and the vote to strike. YES! The offer was THAT BAD!! This new company is going to find itself in a lot of hot water with their stockholders, the taxpayers, the FAA, their customers and especiallywith the military they have contracts with. And why are some people talking about Wal-Mart. Those poor employees that work there can also collect food stamps because the pay is so bad. Wal-Mart is a good example of WHY THERE IS A NEED FOR UNIONS!
Posted by: Trainer Location: Wichita on Aug 9, 2008 at 11:51 AM
I wish Daniel Hultberg luck when he starts his job. Hopefully someone takes the time to familiarize you with your new job even though you are rude. It won't make much difference anyway cause you are eventually gonna GET LAID OFF!
Posted by: Daniel Hultberg Location: Wichita on Aug 9, 2008 at 11:04 AM
You union strikers make me sick to my stomach. I just got a job hawker and can't come on until the strike is over. I have worked hard all my life and finally got a easy job at hawker with you lazy people. I hope you union members enjoy your donuts and water and your 150 dollars a week. Striking is hardest work you lazy union members have ever done, and the sick thing is you get paid better than most. I can't wait until a lot of get fired. Then maybe you guys would have to earn a honest living. Hope to meet with you guys again Mexico because I know that if I was Hawker I would not want to pay you lazy people for the non-existent work that you do.
Posted by: Tool Control?? Location: Wichita on Aug 9, 2008 at 10:01 AM
I noticed that every 2nd or 3rd car out of the gate was a Texas, Oklahoma, Missouri car tag. Contractors.... I hope HBC is practicing tool control during this strike so we have power tools to use when we return to work. Power tools are very EXPENSIVE.. It would have been much easier to just fix a few things on our contract. Maybe you should be checking those lunch pails and work bags.. HMMMM...
Posted by: HBC STRIKER Location: Wichita on Aug 9, 2008 at 09:56 AM
Joe.. You are there because you HAVE NO CHOICE. You are a YES MAN. We will get a better contract. I talk to my friends who are working inside (salary) and they are miserable and don't want to be doing our jobs. Keep talking.. And everytime I have been on the picket line I have not heard people yelling obscenities. The union has stressed there is to be none of that. People are passionate about this and when they see one of their friends crawling into the gate with their tail between their legs, sure they get upset. I have seen very nice treatment by the people out striking. Salary people are bringing us donuts and water and whatever else. They know we are right and some have said they wish they could join us. There are only a very small FEW salary people with Joe's holier than thou attitude thank God. Most are friendly and just want this to be over for us all. We ARE all a team in the end.
Posted by: ToBarb Location: Wichita on Aug 9, 2008 at 01:22 AM
Barb - I would like to apologize on behalf of the picketers if you got yelled at. That is unacceptable. This is supposed to be a peaceful strike.
Posted by: Oldphart Location: On the Picket Line on Aug 9, 2008 at 01:18 AM
There are many ideas worth reading but there is too much emotion clouding the facts on both sides. The company has decided to gamble with their reputation, quality, and heritage. The union drew a line in the sand knowing the membership would vote the way it did. The company expected this as a calculated risk. Bottom Line: The company got what it wanted. Those on the outside haved been asking the company to fix basic things that are so wrong within the workplace. Those on the inside that are engineering and nonexempt know this but have no recourse but report for work. A few of those covered by the bargaining unit that went to work are commenting here because they feel guilty. They may taunt, but never could build planes. They add no value either place. I only wish for HBC to honor our insurance policy. One that I can count on without HBC changing the rules about what is and is not allowed. JS, what do YOU have to say? DD never even brought a pencil to take notes.
Posted by: spirit IAM worker Location: wichita on Aug 8, 2008 at 11:15 PM
good luck with the strike. It would be a good idea to start looking for a temp. job now. When we went on strike in 1989 at boeing it lasted 48 days. we all thought we would be back in a week due to the overtime and backlog of orders. lost several thousand dollars in 48 days. The contract we settled for was slightly better. The 1995 strike lasted 89 days. I went out and got a temp job on the first day and lasted the whole time(both strikes). Insurance runs out after 30 days. When Spirit took over we rejected the 1st contract and they stuck us with a worse contact and no vote in the end. Boeing and Spirit both have clauses that if the strike last at least 30 days they can slide the delivery schedules and not have to pay all the late fees to customers, so if a stike is started they usually want it to last at least 30 days. don't expect to hear about any negotiations for at least 30 days into it. Our strike pay was $100 a week in 1989 same as yours and is $150 now. COLA ? Powdered milk ?
Posted by: reality Location: wichita on Aug 8, 2008 at 09:06 PM
boy ..if all the plane plants relocate thisd place would be like flint michigan.... thanks to nafta....and with a lil help from the union..... as this strike goes on and on...a lot of things have come to my mind..... the hbc union hadnt had a strike since 1984..i believe.....hmmmmm this was the best contract i had seen in 10 yrs.....hmmmm 4 yrs ago they all but begged us not to strkie.....hmmmmm and now.....here we are...... the union is treating us like mushrooms... feeding us full of bull and keeping us in the dark... no..i am not a salary wroker....i have been in the union almost 10 yrs... and as this goes alot..I A M smelling a huge rat!!!!
Posted by: ? on Aug 8, 2008 at 08:12 PM
It's interesting how you read the pro union comments about how this strike is about "values". Since when are profanity and terrorism "values"??? Those are no values I want my children to be taught. Shame on you for subjecting you children's innocent minds to the garbage on the picket lines!!!! You keep saying this is for them, but look at what you're allowing them to be exposed to!!!!! That's fine that you're unhappy with your work situation and that you want your voice to be heard. That is your right. But you do not have the right to subject kids to this kind of deplorable behavior. So go ahead, make your point, but do it with dignity and respect and without terrorizing others and clean it up for the kids!!! Remember it's the example that you set that will stay with them forever. Surely you don't want them to believe that profanity and terror tactics is how we solve our problems with others!! Have your say, do what you must. But for heavens sake set a good example!!!!
Posted by: Joe Location: Wichita on Aug 8, 2008 at 06:41 PM
I can not beleive how many of you HBC strikers call yourself workers. I am lucky to have a job that brings me onto the shop floor alot. I can not beleive how many breaks most of you take. Imagine how much more productive HBC would be if you all gave it at least 80% effort. We are out there using our previous experience to get these airplanes out the door. Read the tails guys, those are not the same planes over and over again. I hope when you all go back to work (probably with a worse contract than the first offer) you will give better than usual effort. I hope management and salary people get a huge bonus this year, because we are the only people that care about this company enough to keep it going.
Posted by: Real Worker on Aug 8, 2008 at 06:37 PM
Hey HBC workers please dont listen to the union BS. If you want to come to work do it.The latest injunction makes the strikers have to move for you.When i left today there were 3 strikers and 2 were sitting on a cooler.I think its funny that all the workers i had respect for and who i never viewed as lazy all were there when i showed up on Wednesday. Reading the comments it sounds like 3-4 union people are still trying to keep a grip on people's mind's. If that guy "DidIMessUp" really lost his job over that?! listen if your gonna make up stuff at least try to make it believable.
Posted by: HBCisLazyFree on Aug 8, 2008 at 06:22 PM
These pro-union posts sound so fake. There's ton's of work being done and i haven't heard of any workers being fired(word travels fast). I smell more union propaganda. Work has been far more efficent when you have a dedicated worker doing the job of a couple lazy union people. I truly hope they replace you all.Work has been a lot more relaxed without some idiot blowing whistles and screaming instead of working.
Posted by: Sam Location: Wichita on Aug 8, 2008 at 06:15 PM
"Skilled labor deserves to be paid appropriately." Then why dont you see Police and Firefighters outside picketing? Or even doctors? Wouldn't you consider those jobs to be skilled? I couldn't agree with Joe more. They don't need you. If your that mad, then quit! Get a job somewhere else.
Posted by: Anonymous Location: Kansas on Aug 8, 2008 at 06:07 PM
I would like to thank President Bush for the economic stimulas checks that are helping us make it through this strike.
Posted by: Hb rocks Location: Augusta on Aug 8, 2008 at 05:40 PM
Strikers...take your ice cream bars and go eat them at home! When we drive by and see you eating them my kids cry wanting some ice cream like those homeless people have!!
Posted by: Jonathon Location: Wichita on Aug 8, 2008 at 05:40 PM
I worked at walmart. First day I showed up for work they showed me two anti-union videos, telling people how evil unions are and how they take away for the employees to give to themselves. Walmart has a special task force that is deployed when members of a walmart start talking about unionizing. Thats why you dont see walmart people stiking. If they knew the truth about what how much a union would help them get decent pay (trust me they get paid crap) and benefits, they would be a union in no time and striking soon after. To all my brothers and sisters walking that picket line, keep it up, we are doing the right thing. ONE DAY LONGER!
Posted by: grandma on Aug 8, 2008 at 05:33 PM
Union Proud -- So it's about "values," is it? What sort of "values" does it take to scream obscenities at people entering the plant? What sort of "values" does it take to threaten to hurt or kill people just because they decided to come to work? What sort of "values" does it take to hold pornographic pictures against the car windows of women entering the plant? Yesiree, the IAM clearly has the market cornered on those "values." Shame on you all.
Posted by: crossed*the*line Location: Augusta on Aug 8, 2008 at 05:27 PM
Yes...you have your right to strike...go ahead..my husband doesn't mind getting up an hour or so earlier for work. He doesn't hear a word that is screamed at him as he passes the line. (thanks to cranked up radio) And actually he loves having his picture taken! But, he also has the right to speak his mind about the fact that the 1st offered contract was perfectly fine and it was stupid to be voted down when we could more than likely end up with a contract WORSE!! He works at Hawker because he enjoys his job,co-workers,and BENEFITS! If you want to strike then Strike if you want to work then come on in "we'll keep the light on for ya!"
Posted by: Mike Location: Wichita, KS on Aug 8, 2008 at 05:21 PM
Dont forget about standing up for practical work operations as well!!! Spirit for instance wants to eliminate certain areas and departments and bring in outside contractors who end up quiting. More companys today want to eliminate safty teams that look out for the saftly of employees. Many higher ups do not have the willingness to have an understanding of day to day operations to know what actually gos on and how to make day to day productions flow effectivly. I hear the new GM at Youngers & Sons has been able to realy turn things around without having a high horse attitude and gaining respect at the same time. Thats they type of person we need to lead other big companys. Sometimes big business seems to always forget about the good people that they have that make their companys have real SKILLS!!!!
Posted by: Anonymous Location: kansas on Aug 8, 2008 at 05:20 PM
I hope all the new hires realize that several of the managers that were forced to cross the picket line have strong union back grounds. Many had been shop stewards. Don't be surprized when you get the dirty jobs when we come back to work, if you still work at HBC.
Posted by: Scab Location: Wichita on Aug 8, 2008 at 05:08 PM
Cross the picket line and be prepared to permanently be terminated from your job. Work under no contract at your own risk. The only way the union can protect your job is if you stay out on strike.
Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 8, 2008 at 04:34 PM
Unions cripple companies. Have any of you ever stopped to think that some of the policies and decisions of management are due to restrictions that exist because it is a union facility? There are no rules for the Union, but the company has an entire list of things that they can and cannot do - anywhere, not just at HBC. The union supporters that I have met have all been unhappy in their jobs, bitter at the company, (and often the world) and openly antagonistic to management. Trying to physically prevent a person just trying to feed their family from crossing to work is psychopathic. Just as you have made your choice, they have made theirs. Your rights end when they infringe on another person's rights.
Posted by: Proud to be Location: Union Free on Aug 8, 2008 at 04:21 PM
I am not a "contractor" or a "salaried" person being used by HBC, and I DO NOT support ANY union. Labor unions were beneficial to workers back in the early 1900's, when conditions were so poor that people were literally working for nothing and often dying due to the lack of safety regulations. I feel for the HBC workers and their families for the excessive amounts of OT, and I believe they have a right to time off; but this is not the way to make that happen. For one thing, it sounds like things are getting behind. If they go back to work, guess what - more OT. If many of the strikers don't ever go back - more OT for the people that do. If those with current orders at HBC get fed up and take their business elsewhere, no work for anyone. The extra money that contractors make hurts the company. People are obviously very passionate about this issue, and no one will change the minds of the individuals on EITHER side. But getting pleasure from any shortfalls during the strike doesn't help.
Posted by: union proud Location: wichita on Aug 8, 2008 at 02:56 PM
This strike isn't about higher pay. It's about values. It's about a better for future HBC employees, about our time with our families not being ripped away with unrestricted forced overtime. It's about standing up against a company that claims to be family oriented, yet will not want us to spend time with them. I for one do not want to look back 10 years from now on all the important times in my daughter's life and say "I wish I could have been there". No amount of money can buy that back. This is about standing up against take away after take away. For those of you who think we are just greedy aircraft workers, what would you do if your boss came in monday morning, said forget your family time, you can only be sick 5 days or your kids can only be sick for 5 days a year. Oh and we are raising your insurance rates with hidden costs. If that happened, I think each of you would take a stand too
Posted by: Barb Location: Wichita on Aug 8, 2008 at 02:19 PM
I am salaried HBC worker,who has no choice but to come into work. At first I supported the strikers efforts, until I got yelled at using rudest most horrible language coming into work. So as far as I am concern I really dont care what you get.
Posted by: Amazed on Aug 8, 2008 at 01:29 PM
Hey Sam, have you been living in a hole? We've said it over and over, IT'S NOT ABOUT THE PAY! Before you say ignorant stuff know what you're talking about. And Joe, do you think that those airplanes in the air are ones that we've already built? Duh.
Posted by: Woodie on Aug 8, 2008 at 01:13 PM
How are these corporations able to pay the executives (Ex: CEO HBC) a milliom dollars a year plus all the perks but aren't willing to pay the workers?
Posted by: HBC union on Aug 8, 2008 at 01:04 PM
Hey Joe! The plane that we see flying over HBC is the same one over and over! Did you forget that they have a number on the tail? Also, strike headquarters is NOT their flight patteren. What's with that???
Posted by: Wichitan Location: Wichita on Aug 8, 2008 at 12:56 PM
[quote] If it weren't for labor unions and their members who can stand up for themselves, YOU wouldn't have the income or benefits that YOU have today. [/quote] John and friends: Without your greed, over-developed pride and willingness to engage in extortion, we would have a hard-working, well-cared-for, HONEST workforce throughout the city. On your soapbox or off of it, you are still a criminal at heart and a very deluded embarrassment to Wichita.
Posted by: Rosie Location: Wichita on Aug 8, 2008 at 12:39 PM
Aerospace is the economic backbone for Wichita and it always will be. Thousands of skilled people go to work every day on those factory floors to build planes that fly thousands of feet in the air. People like YOU...as you sit in one of those planes (on your cushioned seat and sip on a cola) place your life in their hands to build the BEST! The companies make their great profits and they need to pay their workforce accordingly. Give it up Hawker and bring your people back to work!
Posted by: Nonexempt Location: Wichita on Aug 8, 2008 at 12:19 PM
John is right. Because of the Unions greed I get paid less because they have to fork over the money for union employees Because of the Unions greed I have to pay more for insurrance to cover the shortage for giving the union members lower ins rates. I don't feel for them at all because whatever they get, they take that away from other employees in the company.
Posted by: Oldphart Location: On the Picket Line on Aug 8, 2008 at 11:31 AM
Those that have seen the Beech family decimated over the years know the story. Companies show how they value their employees by the health insurance they provide. When it was Beech, you knew what part of any bill was your reponsibility. When it was Raytheon Aircraft, you fought with the insurance to have them pay what they promised. HBC has hired BlueCross to manage their insurance now. There are so many hidden exclusions that show up when you get the final bill, you are deep in debt for items they would not cover. Times have changed. Company ethics have changed. It ain't Beech no more. And the public wonders why there is a strike?
Posted by: george Location: Dallas, Texas on Aug 8, 2008 at 11:11 AM
As a non-unoin aviation industry employee, I understand and agree with the striking machinist. If I may repeat a recent editorial posting to the Dallas Morning News; "Henry Ford paid his employees what was then considered an exorbitant wage so that they could afford the better automobiles they were building. They could also afford better homes, better clothes, better appliances, and so on. This trend, to which the labor unions of the USA contributed greatly, led to one of the greatest economic expansions in history. Now that trend has been reversed and economist and government officials wonder why consumer spending is down, automobile sales are down, housing sales are down, vacation travel is down, and so on. To add insult to this trend is that the trend in corporate executive’s pay is going in the other direction, for the time being". Due to limited space, I can only conclude with that sad relization that as a nation of people with a fifth grade education, we are reaping what we sow!
Posted by: HB wife Location: Mount Hope on Aug 8, 2008 at 11:05 AM
It's more than money that we're striking for, it's jobs, respect, a fair share. Time to give back to the people who actually provide the jobs for the 29 Vice Presidents that BH hired in 29 days. No planes will leave the factory finished guaranteed. We're out for as long as it takes.
Posted by: HBC Striker Location: Wichita on Aug 8, 2008 at 10:53 AM
I have talked to many people inside, they have all told me it is a mess inside so keep trying to tell us you are doing good inside. As of Saturday we would have had 3 Hawker 987 out the door so tell me again you are doing good, have you had 3 987 out the door I dont think so.
Posted by: HBC Striker Location: Greenwich Rd Wichita on Aug 8, 2008 at 10:37 AM
It is not the money. It is standing up for what you believe to be right. We are doing that and those making company sided comments are the yes men or those who can't even get a job there or the lazy people that HBC needs to fire. Those planes you see were waiting to go out anyways... so keep talking your mess. Enjoy the lunches and whatever you get until the REAL workers get back and have gotten a better contract, not only for us but for the people who hire in next month or next year. Strike ON!!!!
Posted by: Union Member Wife Location: Wichita on Aug 8, 2008 at 09:53 AM
To reiterate what John is trying to say, is that all of the surrounding aircraft jobs help support non-aircraft jobs in the wichita community. The aircraft workers wages set the bar for non-aircraft wages and also support those wages by spending aircraft earnings throughout the community. Therefor, is absurd to use the "I dont make as much as you, so stop being greedy" argument.
Posted by: IAM Location: kansas on Aug 8, 2008 at 09:51 AM
The only airplanes we see is airplanes from airports Joe. All w see is 1 aiplane that you gusy built! ow about you take your kids to work Joe? Lets see how they feel about you not caring about your kids!
Posted by: rick Location: salina on Aug 8, 2008 at 09:36 AM
I'm a member of the union we cant go back until the company desides what there going to do lets get some of there pie.
Posted by: Farm Boy Location: Wichita on Aug 8, 2008 at 09:26 AM
Last time I looked this was a free country, if you don't like your job/employer go someplace else and work. Nobody is holding a gun to your head. You want your job to go to Mexico or Canada just keep striking you idiots, it will happen thanks to you folks with no work ethic that are on strike.
Posted by: Did I Mess Up Location: wichita on Aug 8, 2008 at 09:23 AM
First of all , to Sam and Joe. Sam you need to read the signs. Its not the pay. Joe, Those are not new planes flying . Now to all of you you think you might cross the line to go to work, DONT, I did and now I am fired. I was showing a manager how to do something then he tryed it. I made the comment " Good thing you dont have to do that every day " Next thing I knew I was Packing my tool box. That was wednesday. Now I only hope after the strike that the Union will forgive me and help get my job back. PS. Allen you warned me. I should have listened.
Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 8, 2008 at 09:19 AM
It's apparent that some of you can not communicate in proper grammar, so maybe that is why you have problems understaning the writing in your contract.
Posted by: Striker on Aug 8, 2008 at 08:11 AM
I've talked to my salaried friends and nothing is getting done inside hbc. When salaried people go work on the floor, thier work in the office isn't getting done. When they work in the office nothing is getting done on the floor. The scabs aren't getting anything done because they are screwing off. They can't get thier job done when the job ahead of them isn't getting done. Hang in there fellow strikers, it's working. Enjoy your time off. I know I am, I have alot to do around the home that I couldn't get to because of the 6-7 day work weeks.
Posted by: JS on Aug 8, 2008 at 08:06 AM
alright go back to work at least you have a well paying job some of us arent that lucky
Posted by: cliff Location: wichita on Aug 8, 2008 at 07:49 AM
I wonder how many contractors and salaried people hbc uses to post these anti union comments? ask the people at walmart if they would like a union or to make more money, walmart has been fighting unionization for years. if people can be happy with how much they make, how come management geve themselvs a huge bonus each year on top of their high pay?
Posted by: StrikerHBC Location: wichita on Aug 8, 2008 at 01:47 AM
Sam - You have not been paying attention to the issues. If it was all about the money, we would have been back to work almost a week ago with the 4% raises.
Posted by: Anonymous Location: Nebraska on Aug 8, 2008 at 12:32 AM
I have been following the story. I agree with the union. I hear it's just not about the pay. It's about cutting into benefits, and retirement. That IS worth fighting for. I don't call this 'fit throwing'-I see that the American men and women are finally standing up and saying-we deserve better- we will fight for our rights as American workers!!
Posted by: Christianna Location: HBC Union Wife on Aug 8, 2008 at 12:27 AM
Excuse me Sam but you have a major flaw with your theory of why the Walmart Employees don't strike. That is because Walmart has never allowed a union in. The IAM was correct in their assessment. My husband proudly walks the picket line and I do the same in support of his decision to strike. Skilled labor deserves to be paid appropriately.
Posted by: SE Location: Andover on Aug 7, 2008 at 11:49 PM
I voted to accept the contract but feel obligated to strike with my co-union members because of all we have been through the last several years, it has been a very toxic enviorment while waiting for the company to sell. I know the new company is not Raytheon and I feel that they are trying to do better then the past but the rank and file are afraid to trust yet. I think any contract no matter how great would have been turned down at this point. I hope for a quick end to the strike and that we are able to forge a new alliance between our new company and their employees to build the best business jets in the world.
Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 7, 2008 at 11:42 PM
Are the people of Wichita that ignorant to think that HBC is the only company that is expanding to Mexico? Don't Spirit, Boeing, Cessna, and many other companies also have plants in Mexico? Stop complaining about Hawker, because you didn't complain when the others went so why start now? I just don't understand. People are making it seem like HBC is THE backbone of the Wichita economy and it is not. There are many other companies (Boeing, Spirit, McConnell AFB) that collectively make up the backbone of Wichita. HBC is part of it, but not the only part.
Posted by: I Walk The Line ! Location: East Wichita on Aug 7, 2008 at 11:27 PM
I walk that picket line for better health care benefits not greed! They give you one thing and take away another. Standing strong with my brothers and sisters in the union.....WE GOT THE POWER!
Posted by: Union Made Location: Wichita on Aug 7, 2008 at 11:17 PM
For anyone who wants to open their ears before their mouths, we have noticed the planes flying overhead (they are always the same few planes over & over). We are not crying for more money! We are asking to be treated fairly by HBC. We want to be able to spend some time with our families not forced to work 10-12 hrs/7 days. We want to be able to stay home with a sick child & not worry we will lose our job for it. Remember Wichita, what happens to the aircraft employees affects the entire town. The public is not getting the full story of the contract offered. They are mainly getting the company's slant in HBC's attempt to turn public against us. I invite you to come on down to talk & listen to what the media is not reporting. STAND UNITED & STRONG, MY UNION FAMILY!!!!
Posted by: mis-treated beechcrafter Location: wichita on Aug 7, 2008 at 11:15 PM
The reason you don't see picieters at Wal-Mart or Target, is because the ywould be fired and probsbly arrested for trying to form a union..My wife used to work at Target and they pay like crap!
Posted by: bart on Aug 7, 2008 at 11:05 PM
Hang in there strikers, it don't get any better.
Posted by: mis-treated beechcrafter Location: wichita on Aug 7, 2008 at 10:53 PM
Why are we not hearing anything from the company? could it be that Mr Schuster and his SLT all took off on vacation rather than face the picketers and be caught trying to cross them. Also I wonder when they will give those mangagement placards to the scabs so we can't stop them at the gate? The media should ask the company why they refuse to negotiate!
Posted by: Sam Location: Wichita on Aug 7, 2008 at 10:03 PM
If they don't like their pay, then they should quit. They need to stop crying and making signs trying to get their way. You don't see people working at Walmart or Target walking in lines looking like idiots yelling for more money do you? They already get paid enough money, more than a lot of people. It's time they grow up and stop throwing a fit.
Posted by: Joe Location: Wichita on Aug 7, 2008 at 09:54 PM
Look up picketers! We are building airplanes!!! You might notice the planes buzzing over your heads. Who needs you? Go build air conditioners! They wouldn't have to send your jobs to Mexico if you weren't so greedy.
Posted by: Union Strong Location: Wichita on Aug 7, 2008 at 09:44 PM
Keep fighting brothers and sisters! As a fellow IAM member I support you in all your efforts and John is dead on! Don't listen to the whiners and show HBC and the rest of the world what a strong union can do!
Posted by: HBC Striker Location: Wichita on Aug 7, 2008 at 09:07 PM
I am not getting paid for this strike, but I will stay out AS LONG AS IT TAKES... To get better sometimes you have to sacrifice.. GO HBC Strikers!!!!!
Posted by: eastsider on Aug 7, 2008 at 08:30 PM
I think the company's statement was that "green" plane I saw taking off from the Beech runway . . .
Posted by: hbc employee Location: kansas on Aug 7, 2008 at 07:47 PM
I think the company should quit sending are jobs to Mexico. If the people and business around the wichita area and surrounding would back the people it would make the company get right with not only the city fo wichita but also the people that work for them. It not only hurting the businessess around Hawker Beechcraft but also the city it self, and if we dont stand together then we might as well go to Mexico, thats were this company wants HBC jobs to go in 2012. Guess thats why we shouldnt be letting foreigh companies buy out American Bussiness, Thanks
Posted by: John Location: Retired from Boeing on Aug 7, 2008 at 07:05 PM
Why don't all of you people that are against the strikers and don't have anything better to do than post your ignorant opinions here go to the picket lines and tell them your opinion. Wait, you don't have a spine to walk upright. If it weren't for labor unions and their members who can stand up for themselves, YOU wouldn't have the income or benefits that YOU have today. If you don't understand this, I'm not surprised! STAND TOGETHER OR FALL FOR ANYTHING!!!!!!
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Boeing Wichita Cutting 800 Positions
  • Posted By: carroll: alan- ur right. dun is dun. i'm glad i'm on the west side of oliver-- best place to be right now. i'm still on 3 day weeks as a result of the strike. i'm really cramped right now, but i support the east siders 100%! i'm not clear on what current bail outs has to do with 800 being laid off or what McCain has to do with contracts that expire. now i will agree that there are boobs in management. it's that way EVERYWHERE! it's called- promote the incompetent. so they don't hose up everything on the floor. where the real work and productivity happens. a thousand managers have no job with out 10,000 to manage. i've been a manager. everyone loves to blame management for all their woes-- it's cheap and easy. not all decisions are bad even if we don't like them. not all are wise, and proven so in the long run. i've got to work. I will decide what MY approach to today will be. life sux. get over it. get on with it. it'll get better.
  • Posted By: Alan: Jack, I must have hit a nerve? Most managers at Boeing and Spirit are incompetent fools that could not lead a fish to swim in water. It is because of these manager/CEO morons, that these companies, banks or whatever, are in the mess they are in.
  • Posted By: Alan: - Contrary to what some believe, the cut backs on the military programs at Boeing, have nothing to do with Spirit. Boeing is laying off because the contracts are FINISHED, COMPLETE, DONE. Has NOTHING to do with the strike. - And to Anonymous, if Boeing "commercial" cuts back, of course it will affect Spirit, what are you thinking, or are you? - When Boeing came out in the NEWS, and said they were thinking of dropping out of the bidding process, that pretty much summed it up for me. - Yes N, they are there comments, but they are based on nothing but ignorance, none of it is based on fact.
  • Posted By: jack: 1. I was against the first bailout of the financial companies. 2. I am against any other bailout plan. 3. Let the auto industry file bankruptcy to negate union contracts. 4. execs of failing companies should lose jobs or at least large part of salaries. 5. I believe current layoffs are due to economy in large part, but recent strikes have impact too. 6. Union members pay attention to item 3 above or you will be next. 7. Alan shut up! the reason people get promoted is becaues they show leadership skills & qualities you obviously do not have. You Alan are one of the sheeples who blindly follow the leader. You had better hope your leader (the union) are not lemmings.
  • Posted By: Annoyed: Gee, this wouldn't have a thing to do with Sen. McCain wanting to open the bidding for our Military Tanker to a foreign country. Or the fact that once Boeing cried foul and got it stopped the current administration wants to wait and let the new administration handle it. Or that the CEO's and other upper crust at Boeing want their bonuses and perks. Either the brain surgeons on this site can't understand the news or read the paper.
  • Posted By: Response to Anon: If you look at Japan, you will see that when companies start doing poorly, the executives take a decrease in pay because they are considered the responsible party. That's not the case in the USA. They start cutting the little guys here, then reward themselves for increasing profitablity with nice fat raises. I'm not a fan of unions, but I do realize they are NOT what is bringing down our industry. It is crappy management and shoddy accounting practices.
  • Posted By: Just an Observation: You guys are all correct!! It's those evil UNION guys making less than 100k a year sucking all the money out of the companies. It couldn't be all the CEO's, managers, supervisors and supervisors over supervisors bonuses, could it? Profits aren't going to be what they have been, so the only way these clowns are going to get the hefty bonuses they are used to is by cutting overhead. We all know the big dogs aren't going to get rid of themselves, so they boot the workers. They get a HUGE bonus and the remaining workers get MANDATORY OVERTIME. All the while the public p*** and moan about those evil unions.
  • Posted By: : So, Alan the Spirit worker: does this affect the commercial side "Boeing Co. has seen its orders peak and the number of commercial planes in its backlog will probably decline going forward." I
  • Posted By: Curious: Alan, When did Airbus officially get the bid? I thought Boeing lodged a complaint and it was still up in the air... Just curious.
  • Posted By: : Look at the quote in the story: "taking steps to restructure our business in order to lower our rates and become more affordable for customers." This IS about the bottom line. The price a customer pays for a product includes labor costs. Strikes cost millions. Unless the government bails out the auto industry, (a short term fix at best) labor unions there will be gone. One of the foreign companies will buy buildings and equipment for pennies on the dollar, capturing capacity and market share. They can take all the time they need, hire anyone they want, and in the meantime car prices go up, incentives go down, and spare parts are hard to come by. They have the operating capital to do it. Why? Because their current workforce strives for continuous improvement and cost reduction, instead of whining about their pay rate and haggling over details when they are already fairly compensated. Unless drastic changes are made, aircraft will soon be circling the drain as well. Wake up people!
  • Posted By: Deanna: It's a good thing they striked. They would have still had the layoffs so at least you stuck up for yourselves and got a more resonable contract.
  • Posted By: n: Boy, Alan seems to be the smart one out of the bunch. Using words like morons, stupidity, and idiots. Hey Alan why don't you post your comment and leave the insults out. Their not stupid or idiots or morons; it's their comments.
  • Posted By: n: I said when you were striking that you might win in the negotiations but that you'd lose in the long run and ah...I was so right, the layoff is the payoff for your greediness, I certainly hope that those being laid off are the ones that were on the picket line in the first place and not the ones that chose to work and not be greedy and wanting more. God sure works in mysterious ways to those not content with what they have.....Guess who is getting the last word...GOD!!!!
  • Posted By: Elaine: Of course, this is not good news but at least you get to work thru the holidays and you get a 60 day notice instead of just a few days.
  • Posted By: JD: "Alan", i dont know whether to say your comments are stupid or ignorant. If you think the layoffs have nothing to do with the strike, then you are just naive. Boeing and Spirit can make you beleive whatever they want to. But look at the facts, how can it not have to do with the strike.Think about it, you guys struck for more pay and they said ok. And now they are laying off obvisously because there is not enough money to keep the workforce where it is at now. Hmm to me that sounds like because you greedy employees wanted more and now they cant afford it. Just my opinion! So how about you look at the obvious instead of looking at things through you Boeing blinders. Way to go strikers now you can explain to your families why things are tight just like the other hard workers who got laid off because of your laziness. Best wishes to those families who had nothing to do with the strike and for the ones who did....well KARMA is a wonderful thing.
  • Posted By: Johnny B: See what that strike got you . Next time maybe you wont be so greedy . There is no such thing as job security anymore !!!!
  • Posted By: PJ: I do work for Spirit in Wichita. I also used to work for Boeing. As soon as the strike ended I told my wife "Here come the layoffs". It has happened every time there has been a strike at Boeing. Spirit immune to the layoffs plauging the industry? Dont bet on it. Everyday there are more and more people losing their jobs. That translates into less money for people to take that vacation to grandmas for Christmas, that weekend trip to Vegas, that....you get the picture. Less people flying hurts everyone. Right now Spirit is over built because of the strike. How much longer will management keep people on 3 days, when it is cheaper to lay us off so as not to pay for our benefits. If you're not a little anxious over this, then you must be living in a different world then the rest of us. This country hasn't seen anything yet, if congress doesn't help out the automakers. 2,000,000 unemployed is a lot of people. I'd rather see congress bail out the A/I then the Banking and Security industries.
  • Posted By: dc: Too bad to to read some comments in this section. Well, we have to admit and accept the truth that in business we can't guarantee it stays strong. Sometimes it happened like this that business turn down and many of the people getting their bread & butter from it, so it is so sad and depressing, right?..but let us think of wonderful thing and start seeking another job, i think there are still jobs around there that awaits you - don't lose the hope you know and be strong enough to face crisis like this and im sure you grow as well because this is life!
  • Posted By: Alan: Hey K, get a clue, because you do not have one! The military cut back at Boeing is NOT affecting Spirit. I suggest you get your facts straight before aimlessly flapping your gums.
  • Posted By: Anon: The United Auto Workers union has bankrupted the automobile industry, and has the companies so burdened with labor costs that they cannot possibly compete with Toyota, Volvo, Nissan, etc. The aircraft industry and the IAM would be smart to apply that lesson to the aviation industry.
  • Posted By: John: It still proves that the amount of morons that Wichita has. The layoffs have nothing to do with the strike. But every moron that thinks it does will have something stupid to say about it
  • Posted By: K: Hey alan, you genius my husband works there and was told this, i am very well aware boeing is the military area in wichita but apparently that does not matter. So before you spout your crap, don't forget others are in the front line of the layoffs and may actually know what they are talking about. Talk about being uneducated and calling the kettle black!
  • Posted By: Alan: If some of you idiots making these stupid comments, actually find your way onto the payroll of an aircraft company, and they, the company, find out that you really are extremely stupid, that can't understand or do your job, you will probably be made a manager. Boeing has used this technique forever, and Spirit is continuing the trend. You go boy, you go girl!!
  • Posted By: janet: Good going union. Protect your company rights and now because of your greed your people have no...Job. When will you learn that when you get greedy you lose. For all of you who said you were on strike to protect your family, you sure did. Hope you don't lose your home and car and everything you have because now you have NO JOB. You deserve it.
  • Posted By: Alan: The stupidity and ignorance runs deep on this comment section of KAKE. The layoffs have nothing to do with the recent strike. It has everything to do with a few military contracts concluding. The plan was to move the employees that were working on these contracts over to the new tanker program for the United States Air Force. But since our wonderful politicians decided to spend our hard earned tax dollars to pay Airbus to build the aircraft instead, these high skilled mod mechanics are now being laid off. You morons that make these totally uninformed comments amaze me, as you probably do others that read this section also. I can't decide if the fact that you are so severely uneducated, that you can not obtain a decent job other than flipping burgers at McDonalds or you are just plan stupid, and feel the need to lash out at persons that are considered skilled labor. And to the genius that thinks a military cutback will affect Spirit, why would it? They are military, we here at Spirit, are in the most part, commercial. Can some of you not read at all? Educate yourselves prior to making a fool of yourself, like making these half witted comments. If you are that stupid, at least try and learn to appear that you know what you are talking about, so far, most on here are failing, miserably.
  • Posted By: Kenny: I just told my wife after the strike, I said "Just wait, now that they are going back to work, boeing will layoff!" I love being right.
  • Posted By: Joy: Bet your glad you striked now huh?
  • Posted By: q: I only read that they are laying off in wichita. Will they be laying off in Seattle or any other place?
  • Posted By: K: Was told out of rumor that if Boeing lays off then Spirit will lay off too, just lovely for those that are still on 3 day work weeks out there, only to possibly get laid off after the 1st of the year.
  • Posted By: john: Wichita is soon to be the new Detroit in Kansas. The IAM does not know about people....only about greed. I would bet the laid off workers at Beechcraft, Cessna, and Boeing would take a wage cut over layoffs and losing their jobs any day...but thanks IAM...that is not an option. If the companies go bankrupt there will be no jobs for anyone. All of the older employees (IAM members) do not care...seniority makes their jobs safe...or so they think...WAKE UP YOU ARE NEXT! History will show unions to be the demise of american industry. And to think the engineers at Boeing want a 20% pay increase in their new contract? Whatever! Pay attention to Detroit...Wichita is next and the IAM is the issue along with greedy people!
  • Posted By: : HaHaHa to bad,good thing ya strike...........
  • Posted By: : It appears the strike for job security.. didn't work out that well.
  • Posted By: : WAY TO GO IAM!!! Let the Union revel in their victory. Wait victory implies a win - this doesn't look like a win to me....lol...lol...lol...;-)
  • Posted By: : Anyone want to take a back the strike that the Union just had. Part of the reason why 800 jobs are going to be gone.
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