KAKE adds a new digital TV translator on UHF Channel 21 near Wichita
KAKE adds a new digital TV translator on UHF Channel 21 near WichitaKAKE Blog Listing
KAKE adds a new digital TV translator on UHF Channel 21 near Wichita
Topic Author: Jay Prater
Posted: 3:08 PM Mar 4, 2010
Replies Posted: 20 comments
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In addition to our full-power digital signal on VHF Channel 10, as of 11:15am March 4, 2010, we are now broadcasting a low-power digital translator on UHF Channel 21. Both originate from the same tower near Colwich, just northwest of Wichita.

The goal is to help viewers across Metro Wichita, and part of South Central Kansas, using small UHF indoor antennas.  UHF frequencies have smaller wavelengths, compared to VHF. “Set-top” antennas are physically small, which makes capturing the longer wavelength VHF signals more difficult. Some manufacturers try to compensate by including an amplifier. These amps, of varying quality, also boost any reflected signals and other noise, sometimes making reception of VHF digital television more difficult, if not impossible.

Remember, a proper “full-size” non-amplified antenna, mounted in the attic or outdoors will always outperform even the best indoor set-top.

You might remember that KAKE-DT was on UHF Channel 21, until the end of full-power analog TV, and “moved” to VHF Channel 10. However, this new low-power signal is 15kW ERP, which is the maximum power allowed by the FCC for a translator station. So, the coverage area will be smaller than the “old” full-power Channel 21 digital signal, which was 850kW ERP.

Still, if you were able to watch KAKE-DT, via antenna, on Channel 21 before February 17, 2009 and have trouble receiving us on Channel 10…give us a try on Channel 21 again. In your DTV’s or converter box’s setup menu, you can “scan” for new channels, or add channel 21 manually.

One thing that may be a tad confusing, since it’s a translator…it will have the Virtual Channel (PSIP) 10.1, just like KAKE. So, if you can pull-in both our VHF Channel 10 and UHF Channel 21 signals you’ll have two 10.1s appear in your channel list. Yeah…silly, I know. I could devote another blog on why I’m not a fan of PSIP’s virtual channel numbers. But, I digress.

Some DTVs and converter boxes may have trouble dealing with two 10.1s. You may need to delete the existing entry before you scan, or manually enter channel 21. For example, I have a DTVpal converter box, and it renamed the channel 10 signal as 71.1, while the channel 21 signal became 10.1. While my Samsung HDTV has two 10.1s, the first is channel 10, the second is channel 21. Your experiences may vary, too.

Please share your results, and include your location, antenna type, and DTV/converter box information.

Good luck!

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  • by Jay Location: KAKE on Sep 29, 2010 at 05:11 PM
    The KPTS DTV replacement translator is welcome news! With 13.7kW ERP, it should provide quality service to Greater Wichita. I hope they get it funded soon.
  • by Anonymous on Sep 27, 2010 at 08:53 AM
    Jay, KPTS now has a construction permit for a translator on channel 17 in Wichita, but isn't likely to be built and put on the air until funds are raised for it. It will transmit from a tower at 4800 N. Hydraulic, and will use circular polarization.
  • by Jay Prater Location: KAKE on Jul 13, 2010 at 04:52 PM
    Raj: Indoor antennas with amps are a crap shoot at best. You may get lucky, or not. The problem is an amplifier not only increases the signal, but any noise too, by the same amount. So, you must "collect" enough signal before the amp can help. You might try moving the antenna, with the amp by-passed if possible, to different spots and see what happens. Remember to try both channel 10 and 21. Instead of scanning, input those RF channels directly into the TV, or converter, so you can tweak the antenna while looking at the same channel for much longer than the second or two than a automatic scan entails.
    If OTA is important to you, I recommend investing in a rooftop, or attic mounted, UHF/VHF antenna.
  • by Raj Location: Andover on Jul 10, 2010 at 08:41 PM
    Hi Jay, I currently use an indoor antenna. I receive the other OTA networks except for KAKE. Can you suggest me a way to receive KAKE signal using my indoor antenna with a signal amplifier? Thanks.
  • by Jay Prater Location: KAKE on Apr 19, 2010 at 06:05 PM
    Gary: I will post a new blog as soon as I have any information on the analog to digital transition of any of our low-power and translator stations.
  • by Gary Location: Beloit on Apr 16, 2010 at 05:43 PM
    I was just wandering how soon you might be broadcasting in HD. We receive your station on channel 6 on cunningham cable here in Beloit. Are you planning to go to HD soon? We receive KBSH on HD up here, but dont receive your station on HD. Could you find out when your station will be on HD up here? Thank you for your time.
  • by Helen Location: Wichita on Apr 6, 2010 at 10:35 PM
    Thanks KAKE, UHF gives us a much better and stronger signal. Only wish KPTS would do the same. THANKS
  • by Jay Prater Location: KAKE on Mar 19, 2010 at 01:54 PM
    Christopher: I'm glad you found a way to make it work! Another great antenna helper is www.tvfool.com. You can input your address and get the azimuth and distance to your closest TV stations, for free. I didn't realize that your combiner included an amp, too.
  • by Christopher Location: Hillsboro on Mar 18, 2010 at 01:34 PM
    KAKE: Too bad re: PSIPs. On the Panasonic, deleting either 10.1 seems to force the low-signal channel for some reason. The only way to receive 10.1 cleany on it is to leave both 10.1s available and just watch the clear one. I don't use the tuner much on the Panasonic anyways, so not a huge deal, just fyi. I use the Panasonic primarily as a display for a Windows 7 Media Center computer. I was able to delete individual RF sources there (In the Guide, select the channel tab on the left, click 'info' button, select 'edit', select 'edit sources', you'll see a list of all Virtual Channels with associated RF channel per tuner) Funny enough, the UHF signal is cleanest, the RF 10 is unusable (<30%).
  • by Christopher Location: Hillsboro on Mar 18, 2010 at 01:33 PM
    KAKE, continued: I tried re-aiming both antennas to half-way between with a Colwich bias (215 Magnetic) and everything seemed fine except for 24.1 RF 26 Fox, which dropped to 0. I currently have the VHF at 215 Magnetic and the UHF at 200 Magnetic with good results. Colwich is 198-199 degrees 43 miles, Buhler is 232 degrees 36.3-37 miles. (Don't ask how many hours of trigonometry that took) My two antennas are both Antennas Direct, UHF- 91XG 16.7dB Max gain, VHF- V21 12.9dB Max gain. I use a Winegard AP-2870 Dual Input Combiner/Amplifier with good results. This signal travels ~40 cable feet (RG6Q) to a 3-way splitter where it travels ~6 cable feet to the Panasonic TV and and two dual tuners (total of 4 tuners) in the Media Center Computer. Some channels are steady on 100% signal, so I think more amplification could cause problems. Thanks for the information, the delete and add tip definitely helped.
  • by Jay Prater Location: KAKE on Mar 17, 2010 at 02:37 PM
    Christopher: The FCC requires that digital translators rebroadcast exactly the digital stream of the primary station. So, the UHF channel 21 signal will always be “PSIPed” as KAKE 10.1. Sorry.

    However, can you delete both 10.1s…then instead of rescanning, simply manually add either RF channel 10, or 21, whichever provides you with a better signal?

    Being in Hillsboro, I assume the reason your antennas are 30° apart, is that one is pointed toward Buhler, and the other toward Colwich.

    There are two VHF signals broadcasting from near Buhler (KPTS 8.1 – RF channel 8 and KSCW 33.1 – RF channel 12), and one from Colwich (that’s us KAKE 10.1 – RF channel 10). While one UHF signal (KWCH 12.1 – RF channel 19) originates from near Buhler, four from near Colwich (KSNW 3.1 – RF channel 45, KAKE 10.1 – RF channel 21, KSAS 24.1 – RF channel 26, KDCU 31.1 – RF channel 31), one radiates from near Halstead and is only 7° clockwise from Colwich (KMTW 36.1 – RF channel 35).

  • by Jay Prater Location: KAKE on Mar 17, 2010 at 02:35 PM
    Christopher continued: Since you are closer to Buhler than Colwich, you might try aiming both antennas in-between the two locations, pointing more towards Colwich.

    Furthermore, you are feeding more than one tuner. A mast-mounted preamp will not only boost your signals, but also act as a distribution amp for multiple tuners. I personally use and recommend the Channel Master 7777. It has separate inputs for UHF and VHF antennas. Remember using a combiner introduces a 0.5dB, or greater loss.

    Please let me know if any of this helps.

  • by Christopher Location: Hillsboro on Mar 16, 2010 at 06:00 PM
    I'm in Hillsboro and this has caused me a couple problems. On my Panasonic HDTV a re-scan shows two 10.1 channels, blocking either one results in the weaker signal remaining (probably the UHF) I also have another tuner that is unable to receive 10.1 clearly where it was clear before the change. I have performed multiple re-scans and show only 1 source for KAKE. Unless you assign the UHF repeater to a different channel or sub-channel, I'll need to apply a notch filter to at least one antenna (I have a UHF hi-gain and VHF hi-gain about 30 degrees apart with a UHF/VHF combiner)
  • by X on Mar 8, 2010 at 08:24 PM
    I am 35 mins S.W. of Wichita. The antenna was a flat- multi-directional antenna with adapter. I wasn't able to get a clear signal on my sylvania sdtv with my traditional Phillips rabbit ears with signal adapter
  • by Jay Prater Location: KAKE on Mar 4, 2010 at 04:31 PM
    Thanks for the reports. Would you please share your locations and antenna types? Thanks!

    Jeff: As soon as we have a firm date, I will have a new blog posting about it.

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